Hitman47

There is no question reliable HP per Dollar the 351w is hands down the winner due to the fact that it has been in existence since the late 60`s. In 40 years the 4.6 or 5.4 will be cheap do build reliable power. You have to remember most of the performance parts are designed to be sold to racers [dirt,scca etc] Once they sell alot of cranks and rods and pistons they can make them cheaper because it becomes routine to make them. Someone mentioned shm blocks well in 10 years i would guess they would drop 50% in price. I finnally got back to my project and I have my 383 w almost ready. A 454 is way to much for a stock block, and since you mentioned the kite factor it probably wont be worth the extra headachs for that little more power and since you dont care about 200 extra lbs build a big block. I though the windsor was alittle to cookie cutter for me so i decided to make a semi unique one 68' block has about 17 lbs more weld on the webbings so you get a true 150 hp rating over the later block. My friend is putting 1450hp through his 69 stock block in his funny car. I realize this is the exception and not the rule but the early 351 is very beefy. Then i bought a chp forged crank, rods [6 inch] and pistons. Im getting tfs wanna be heads same castings but cnc`d and 2/3rds the price 2.05/1.70 But instead of the holley 4barrel im using a trick flow efi intake, because im going to rev her to 7200 I`m getting the track heat. Also im plumbing a t-72 turbo. I love the maf injection because it really is like have a carb tuner all the time under your hood wrenching as you goose it. So i believe its not the base engine you use its the heads, fuel delivery and power adder that makes it for me. An injected/turbo 383/w is the perfect muscle/modern engine for me, it has the bark of the pushrod v8 and the whine of the turbo with the versitility of maf injection. Chad

Sorry guys just got out of rehab for a painkiller problem with my football injury it set me and the project back quite a bit so to all who are crying hoax or doubting me please lay off ive had a rough 60 days and life isnt pretty now so unless anybody has good suggestions please shut up. I lost my football scholarship blew my shoulder out and got strung out on painkillers so please lighten up. Chad

your damn right why everyone dosnt stroke motors is a big question to me its so cheap to ad 30 cubes to a 5.0 that are realiable asnd track tested it dosent make sense to me unless they need more reving in a certain type of road race car but then hey why not buil a race motor

I love stroked long roded 351w I have one but when the comp ring on the pistons fills withg oil because some engineers tried to squeze a few cubes in...That is a ploy to me, they originally posted them as "TRY 427 S/C POWER IN YOUR SMALL BLOCK" guess what the reason the 427 made so much in the shelby cars was becaause the side oiling and about 1000 coolant and lube passages.

Dude hat those post are 2:30 in the morning after a 10 hour day of trench digging then three hours welding a jet on wheels please oh please cut me some slack Chad

sorry milled head is requiered also i was talking about either a built small amount of money or gt40 head. Chad

Is ther any body here who can lay carbon fiber nicely or say fiber glass if so you want a job? Im opening my arizona shop and im going to make z supercars so i need carbo parts but glass would be nice let me know

thats probably why its so cheap but ill ask my pro pro pro tommarrow at the shop

yes they are that cool man u can puck up a jy 5.0 that you can rebuil for 250 that will run for ever, at 320-380 hp with turbo 400-600 Chad

but you choose wisley ford is lighter more 50/50 balancr and turbo`s so ez its stupid. We will eventually com out with a z shorty turbo header and a garret sigle turbo for us stroker 351 guys who wannt lag and twqin kits for the guys whho want 2 grand up hp. Anywhere from custom 10,000 kits to a mere jy clean as possible 600 kit. But we got the tube bender done so let ,e know if you want a cage/tower braces/frame crossmembers or if you are in our area bay area and need fab work done also we plane tto make a concealable 36 point rllcage kit that hoooks up to a ford 8.8 or 9 inch rear. Chad

well im waiting on my dads ca" 66 cobra to be done then we are off to the races. Everythging possible has gone bad we keep eating dist gears and we are runnin stadard oil pump, bad cam gears but we havr used so many bramds crans speed pro and comp...but right after that we will have it done my guess 1-11/2 months ready to ship but ebveryone will have to sign a waiver saying if your car ies im not getting sued : )

once my kit is up and running if you can fab and have a decent priccred tranny enine 1000 it will work, ive done it look at my ky list thats close t o what you should do CHsad

72 1/2

Im using a toploader but, but would its fine because 6-700 hp doesnt car if you stsrt in 4th Also the 9 inch kit will be out it will be verybadass, we are trying to have the stock spring housing with the stock almost everything. Remember guys solid rears get way better traction all the way around for hi hp cars or else trans am cars the priemer road racers [where irs shines] wouldnt take out the dana 30`s corvette irs [the strongest irs] and put in 9 inchs which may seem to you bowtiers like a sacrelig but hey nobodys prefect

About 20 lbs of cast iron on all the main webbing where the block derives its strength from. Also Better casting techniques. And the water pump was on opposite side and a few other things, but mainly strength, about 250 hp worth. Chad

cyril whats your number again I wanna call you but ive been out of commission. Is it6623793? We will prep your car if you want. Chad

hat look on ebay i good a prepped 72 351 for 300$ then the rotating assymbly you can for 1200 $ machine work 150 bap you have a potential 500+engine easy. To 383, I do respect your choice of chevy 383 stroker, it is probably the most proven stroker ever to be made. Gobs of tq and great tq band all the way to about 6-6500...Most realiable hands down. My second favorite engine had it in a 56 chevy bel air ran 11.8 1/4 Chad

Not built the same but built for the same price my friend. Price was the issue. The Bowtie boys say chevy is better because price and abundance of parts and they used to be right...Until now...now its a level playing field except one thing...We have way easier turbo installation. I`d say a good 30 % of ford guys plan on using turbo`s where is checvy we only have a few per capita. Chad

First I realize the 406 is .30 over 400...But do not understand why you dont understand why the need for a sbf had to exist to compete with it on the track to keep up with it? A stroker is just a hybrid engine so in a way the chevy 400 was a hybrid made by chevy. Chevy had to awnser back to the 351c and 340 hemi so it built a 350 block with a bigger bore and taller crank. So when 400 became popular with dirt trackers/oval and the 377/406 was used ford boys had to awnser back since nascar dosent allow the 351c due to the heads the came up with the max ci limit 408 w stroker. Did what I say sound that ludicris? maybe so? Also i was teased by some of my chevy friends about how I could never build a ford that could beat a built lt1 for the price...i could have used all ford racing parts if that would have appeased you and then it would be for. My point in my sig is chevy guys always brag about how cheap and superior there engines are I know this because i was one of them until I saw the main caps on a 351w and realized that in my opinion it was a far superior design to that of even the big bad 4 bolt chevy. I rather have the 2 bolt for than the 4 bolt chwvy anyday, but not 3 years ago i was a die hard bowtie engine builder. I finally saw to many rod`s snap and got sick of cutting holes in my firewall to set my engines back. The only problem where chevy is superior toi ford is the distributor system but now that there is msd/jacobs I see no advantage with chevy. Also I found chevy to be liars about rated hp and ford to be accurate. I personnally dyno`d 3 z06`s at my friends shop it was a big bas 405 hp motor that only put 372.5@7800 and put 355 hp @ its redline. Where is all three 2003 mustangs that where rated at 390 hp where from 387-411hp all below redline it finnally sold me. Anyways I have 36 chevys under my belt and know that i work at the ford perf shop im in the 70`s. Fords do eat distributor gears though. Anyways they said it couldnt be done to beat a all chevy built lt-1 but even without my turbo my motor would cost me 3400 with tranny and at 10.7 to 1 like the lt1 would have 620 hp about 200 hp more for about the same price as a rebuilt stock lt1 with t-56 tranny Chad

Sorry guys do ultimate fighting and finnally got jumped on the street had a few face bones broke so i have not been writing but i shall return

Hat remember 383 are tq monsters and even ones with 300 hp can have well over 550-650 lbs of tq 383`s are hard on every tranny if he has a 5.0 it can handle it.

cyril my phone is down but i could fab you some mounts, 8312770204

No offense but zgeezer, The concept of a 427 small block is rediculous and is usually a ploy a 331 is a great engine but dosnt have 1/2 the strength that the 351 block does when boost is involved it turns things around alot. And its not about speed because who ever put together a 427 sbf and only gained that over 331 did it on purpose didnt get traction or was a little motorly challenged the 427 sbf can get double the hp of a 331 when done right but for how long? Ive built a 400 hp 5.0 and a 620 hp 351 windsor. It really is almost the differance between big block and smallblock. All these 408-even 455 sbf kits are made for one purpose 2500 miles of pure victory where they are abused and pushed hard to there limits sometimes 8000 rpm. I hada bracket racing but who ran a 414 sbf and put 722 hp on methanol for 15000 miles and there is no way the 5.0 could have even ran on an engine stand before cracking because of 550 hp. The 351 is defenately the superior motor. On the other hand I disagree with magnum largest safe stroker package so far to my knowledge...Im up to #72 built ford engines, and highest is 393ci, I even went with a 383 becuase its got a longer rod than 408 but shorter stroke wich means better and more powerful, due to engine physics. I also have a coast kit

Dude first thing about a 408 is that it sucks, Usually 99.9 percent of the time the rod pin hole is in the ring wich traps oil and puts massive strain on your engine, which in turn causes an unstable but powerful motor. 408`s got populkar for circle tracker gran am`s wehen chevy`s came out with the 406 stroker. Remember when strokers were first popular and all the real knowledgeable guys said stay away from them, thats due to that problem. Sure they were torque monsters with a 4.00 stroke or 4.1 [i forget] But they wore out fast. They were race engines. How many seasons does a race engine go for? 15 races? 20 ? @ 25 miles a peice? My dad built a 408w in 1995 during the stroker expensive days and the rod blew at 1000 miles in a 66 cobra that wieghed 2300 lbs. Anyways so you all sound intelligent to a rea rodder 408`s and 347`s absolute junk in my opinion. I have a 383w and it can rev to 8500 where is the same 408 crank is rated at 6800. Think what a stock 351/400m crank is good to 5800 rpm`s my guess. But hat to awnser your question 500hp on a 5.0 is certain engine failure due to cracking of the block, especially boosted http://www.turbomustangs.com/redirects/featuredcars.htm step 1-go to stock block chronicles Q: How much power can the stock block handle? A: There are several answers to this, do you want a combo you never have to worry about, a semi-reliable combo, or a time-bomb / glory machine? For a reliable setup 450rwhp seems to be the limit, anything above that and you are asking for trouble. For a glory pass the stock blocks on turbomustangs.com have seen 600rwhp. You must also take into account RPM. Most guys on turbomustangs.com keep their turbo combos below 6000rpm. But if you are making 500rwhp and revving to 7000rpm it is a safe bet you will crack before the 6000rpm 550rwhp guy. Q: What happens when the block fail due to excessive power? A: Typically the block splits right down the middle starting at the threaded bolt holes in the main webs (where main bolts thread in) and work their way upwards towards the cam bearings and ultimately end in the lifter valley Q: Will a main stud girdle help keep the block from breaking? A: Ha, ha, no. All it will is hold all the parts together in a tidy pile. Some of the failures pictured below were equipped with stud girdles. Q: Is it possible to have a cracked block and not know it? Like the motor still runs fine with no noises. A: Yes, in some cases where the block has not cracked completely, the only thing you may notice is a drop in oil pressure (assuming you have an oil pressure gauge). Q: Should I turbocharge my stock 93+ shortblock, ie: won't the hypereutectic pistons break? You can absolutely turbocharge a hyper-piston engine. In fact 2 of the combos below had hyper pistons and the pistons were fine when the block split in half. It all comes down to the tune. I also have a friend who sprayed a 150 shot on his 93 GT for many years and ran 11.0's all day and NEVER had a piston failure. Q: Can I crack a Dart, R302 or A4 block? ie: How much power can they handle? A: None of the experienced racers on turbomustangs.com have seen any of the above blocks break. The blocks in question have seen up to 1600hp and beyond. Stock block carnage: We are assuming the failures below were due to power alone. Thus we are assuming that the tune was good, the car wasn't detonating or running lean. This is a fairly safe assumption because if these engines were detonating the pistons would likely be in many different pieces. The stock 351 block is rated at about 580-7700 hp thats a conservative number also. Trust me a 5.0 block thats not a dart world products or dss racing will not hold up to 500+ boosted power never. Here are some q and a`s from turbomustang.com [by the way everyone bookmark that site it is one of the most powerful {upper hand on chevy} thing we ford guys have are the 5.0/5.8 ease of turbo.] So now on to your others Q. I want a Streetable car, If I were building a drag only id go totaly different. A. No replacement for displacment, and why build a 306 when you could have a 351 for the same price now days. Not only that, You could probably use the stock rods and pistons they were very strong. Also if you have ever seen the bottom main caps of a windsor it looks like a chevy big block just huge bolts a huge caps, There is a reason the 351 wieghs 50-80 lbs more its all muscle meat. Also the 302`s were more power bandy where is a 351 boosted is alot smoother. I rode in my dads friends cobra 302 with vortech and it felt like a street bike you would bog due to the low comp ratio and then hit the power band and it would roast them everytime because it was like hitting a 150 shot. My dads 393w has the same 500 lbs of tq across the power band so you dont have to worry about it all the sudden engaging and ripping loose around a corner. Also better for low comp with boost because has so much torque anyways. A 302 with 10.5-1 feels about the same powwr wise as a 8-1 351. Q. I want driveable gas mileage. Its a weekend car but my daily sux. and Id like to be able to cruise for less then $100. A. 5.0/5/8 wont notice the differance since the late model 351w`s has longer intake runners it oxidizes fuel more effeciently so it evens out. But ci for ci the 351 is more efficent. Why did ford choose the 351 stroke in the 4.6 and not the 5.0 for the modular well its mor efficient, and broader torque band. Q. I want turbo because while not on boost its nice running, easy to drive and not under the strain. A. Thats why I chose the windsor instead, I have boost control when im driving around town with a billiet flywheel and alum drive shaft, and knife edged crank i would have to rev a 302 to 3 grand and slip the clutch where is my 383w has all that with o boost running 7.8-1 comp and drives like a normal car on hills!!!! Due to the massive torque. Most people dont realize HP = torque * RPM / 5252 Q. I want the motor to be able to handel the boost and the power A.Defenate no on the handling of a 500+ hp 5.0 block holding up for long, unless you get a dart wp or dss racing block. In summary... Im not saying that the 5.0 isnt a good engine I love them teh y are great and have many advantages over the 351 in a light car in drag racing for instance You want the engine to bog of the line so you dont roast the tires all day. If you ever watch the toyota 9 sec cars or mazda rx-7`s they are designed to bog for traction. Then the turbo kicks in and they are a bat out of hell. You see If you dropped the clutch at 3 grand in a 351w you would burn till them while the other guy would still be crossing the finish, where is the 5.0 Bogs a hair so the turbo can wind up and spring up bam you are hitting 1.2`s 60 foot times. But the 351w in 3rd would pull. The perfect example is watch a fox body race a new modular. Practically same displacement but one has huge stroke {tq] and small bore [upper end hp] [modular takes 351 windsor crank and tiny pistons. The other the 5.0 has small crank big pistons [small tq lots hi-hp] The fow will win off the line most everytime because can launch harder without spinning them, where is the modular must dump the clutch about 1800 rpm to bog. Anyways 5.0 are great all purpose motors but 5.8`s are superior in strength power and torque, where is you can rev the crap out of the 5.0. For street use go 351w. Hate to say this but not many chevy guys run 302 chevys over 350`s because you dont loose to much reving but gain tremendous hp and tq and stregth. My opinion hands down street car 351w, on the track may be dangerous due to downshifts a hard throttle pumps because it will pitch you sidways but street car 351w hands down. Also in a z the last thing you want is a peaky power bandy thjing that lights them up as soons as you goose it at 4000rpm Chad