zredbaron

Jon, I was told almost as a side note, that the cams accounted for $500 of the cost of the head. I'm not sure if that was for the custom-grind or regardless if they had to grind it or not. I do think I remember the custom grind being about a 6 week wait, regardless of time of year. I would think that if you wanted to, they would let you just buy a cam, but I'm not sure. I won't be calling them back until next Monday, as the man I really need to speak to (Jim) won't be back until then. You want me to ask if he'll sell a cam as is? Sounds like Jim has all the knowledge for the L6 motors, it wouldn't be hard to get a little clarification for you. Who knows if the $500 included something else, it did seem a tad high to me...

XTCshri2222, I just bumped a thread I started about two months ago "NA 3.1L=>head & camshaft questions" A lot of the same stuff is talked about there, but the thread is all out performance, no stock parts considered. There's a lot to learn in that post. Also, you can read an article of FI vs. carbs (article discusses TWMs 3x2 bodies). The article was written by DRAG Sport magazine. Here it is: http://www.twminduction.com/ThrottleBody/carb_vs_fi.pdf Good luck with your decision, I've been deliberating for a long, long time! I do think that when I can afford to drop $5k on it, I will do the TWM and TEC-III setup. I really don't think that can be topped...

JohnC: DanBaldwin: (and btw Dan, I just saw one of your replies that I previously missed from another post--I think you're right, you've helped me with just about every post I've ever put up! Thanks!) Well, this was some time ago that we started this one, eh fellas? At the time Sunbelt was prepping for race season, so I was asked to wait a few weeks before I inquired again. I waited about eight weeks, called today. Chet mentioned only a .550 grind and a .475 grind, but admitted Jim was the man. I need to get back to him with some specs, but his rough ballpark estimate really surprised me. I was thinking the maybe $2k, 1500 for labor and 500 for parts. Guess I was wrong...$3000!?!? If you don't mind me asking, is that about what you guys put into your heads alone? I know, I've heard it. Put all your money into your head, it's worth every penny. I just wanna get another confirmation. $3k is a lot of money to a kid. You two say go? I've never experienced a change in head, I can only imagine. My head right now is probably worse than stock (I'm only getting 157hp at the wheels, with a stroker, and i do know the block was done right) So obviously my head is a real POS (and the 40mm weber arg, but I think my head is the choke point right now). Side note: dropping in a 4.375 R180 (with a Quaiffe ATB, baby!) made a real difference, lemme tell you! You should have seen the look on my friend's face when his new Vette lost to me (up to about 100mph, im sure I would have been toast seconds later) and showed him the 157.2 rwhp printout. Haha. That diff is hot! You guys may have the fastest NA Zs around, but I might be able to win the fastest ~150hp bracket! haha.... (And I'm still deliberating the 3x2 throttle bodies, btw.) Oh, and I'm not sure if my memory serves me right but I think it was John Mortenson who, like me, wanted to find a grind with about .500 lift and around 300 duration.... Sunbelt told me they would custom grind me a cam for whatever they could fit onto my block (this was assuming I would leave the pistons alone), and basically whatever power band I wanted. So there's that option for us, John. Hey this one could have used a bump anyway...

Haha. Thanks for the numbers, I think I should be quite happy with those, especially since my webers are only 40mm. If you ever find out the lift value, I'm sure I'm not the only one that would love to know... Thanks!

whew. i know we're supposed to be patient, but nearly 8 months? man...it's a good thing the machinist i'm going to is backed up too... does anyone know if any of this discussion does NOT apply to the E31? thanks.

what do i need in order to bolt up an R200 diff into my 71? ive read a few threads discussing it, but it is unclear as to whether or not it is necessary. i dont have a high hp Z, so no worries there. i have the spicer u joints if that matters. do i need new halfshalfts/flanges? anything else? thanks guys. mark

i bought a 5 spd tranny but the guy cant remember if its an 80 or 81. the only difference is fifth gear, right? im sure i need to open it to determine the yr, but what do i look for? thanks again, fellas. -mark btw if anyone cares im workin on a website to show all ive gone thru. it wont necessarily detail installation b/c well im just 24 and dont have the experience, but i can at least share what ive done and the mistakes and lucky guesses ive made. plus theres always gratuitous Z pics and flics...

Yeah, I agree Jon, that grind was what I was looking for, but now.... ...thanks for the warnings guys. I will heed... that isky cam looks great but i think itll be a bit too much lift and will hit my pistons without valve reliefs...closer to .500 is what i seem to understand as being safe. anyone have experience here? Anyone know what sunbelt has in that neighborhood of grinds? (or others) thanks again...

They offer: Anyone use this with their triple carbs and/or their 3.1L setup? thoughts? I have been trying to talk to Jim at sunbelt for weeks now, but hes a bit busy with the demands of starting race seasons, so I don't know what cam grinds he offers. Thanks for the help...

That may very well be the case, Jon. I was introduced to the idea by my mechanic after I installed the MML 13" brakes. The brakes don't have much hydraulic power to them, but if you shove your foot on them, the car stops pretty damn good. I asked if the cause was my booster, and he suggested a vacuum pump since I am only drawing vacuum from one cyl. Personally, I think Tim is right in that a reservoir will do just fine, a pump would be a bit much. You mention that you have a smaller booster. Care to elaborate a bit on that? Anyone else have thoughts or advice? Thanks...

yes a vacuum assist for braking with a rad cam, not bleeding the brakes. dont really know what im talking about, but i know i could really benefit from a kit. here are my impressions, please correct me if im wrong: i need a vacuum pump and a collector to hold the vacuum and some kind of assembly to interface with the booster. Tim240z, i think thats what im looking for. are you running that in your 240z? what all do i need and what am i looking at for cost? thanks guys.

16 x 7.5 SSRs @ 11.5 lbs with 225/50ZR16 all the way around

anyone know where i can track down a vacuum pump with reservoir kit? anyone have one or know of someone who has done this? thanks -mark

Thanks. You say very few...who else other than Sunbelt?

Phone calls made. According to TWM, it is well worth the wait for the 2000 series ITB setup over the DCOE replacement series. They expect a much higher midrange power output with the...manifold-like thing. (Well, what do you call it? It's kind of a manifold, kind of not....) Anyways, it's $3k without the injectors. I called Electromotive. My HPV-1 ignition system is not capable of controlling an injection system. They just released the TEC3, which they claim adds 10-40% hp to ANY setup, is $2k. Haha. Side note: he thought I was upgrading to FI from a single carb. I asked his professional opinion if it was really worth the money for just a few ponies. Once I told him I had triple webers: ".........Oh........." Obviously he'd been burned by some trips before, eh? So, I can either tune my webers, possibly upgrade to 45mm or spend $5,000 for some hp and tuneability. Hope this gives the silent readers an idea of what this setup really costs. $5k just for spark and intake is a lot. I'm thinking carbs. Not the Atkins kind. The good ol fashioned atta kid kind. I didn't really like the idea of ditching my carbs anyway. I'll call it a sign. So now I just need to go back to the cam choice. Sounds like the .550 lift and 305 dur cams we were talking about several replies ago are too much for a weekend warrior. I want it barely streetable, but streetable nonetheless. Where is the line where it stops being a car that can idle and park and being a car like johnCs where he just "launches it." .500 lift 290 dur sound about right? Can i push a little higher than that if I go with high compression? Thanks again.

Thanks, Dave. I am one of those younger drivers you are talking about. I got my first 240z when I was 16, I am on my third now at 24 (same one since 18 ). When I started, I didn't even want to go to an L28. I wanted to keep the L24 and overbore it a bit. I eventually decided that I would later regret having the smaller displacement, and I am glad I went with the stroker. I liked the idea of keeping the car as pure as possible, and I loved how carbs looked. However, no one in my family knows anything about cars. Everything I know has been taught third person (which ain't much) . I don't have any friends that know much about cars, just friends that like them. I have had on hell of a time getting my carbs tuned. I managed to accidentally find a mechanic in arkansas (where the car is) who used to run 240s on a track with triple webers back in the 70s. He owns an import repair shop and although he could have tuned them well, he needed jets to play with. I got some jet sizes recommended to me, it ran better, but as my numbers show, not as well as it should be. Again the cause is the head, but the carbs still need better tuning. Every time I go home its a new season and with humidity and temperature changes, it runs different and I have to play with them. I used to just screw them up, but now I get it a *little* better. So for me, having no experience or resources, FI makes more sense. I can let my ignition account for changes in season and elevation. Additionally, I am in the Navy and I see several geographical moves in the next five years. Here to Baltimore, south to Florida, then west to San Diego hopefully. FI gets more and more attractive. But my heart still wants the carbs, Dave. It's too bad. As for the initial cost of everything, even if I would stay with carbs, I would be upgrading them, so I might as well just get what I decide on. I'm still sleeping on it. I'm not in a rush to make the wrong decision...

Yeah that was one of my questions for them when I call this afternoon. Another is do I need a TEC 3? I don't think I would, I think my HPV-1 would do the trick. Anyways, like I said, I'll let you know what I find out...

I too have that exact setup, 3.1L stroker. Compression is too high for 93 octane. I just posted my dyno chart into my personal profile picture gallery. Sorry, I don't have a website for hosting pics. It is a very smooth graph, but the numbers are low. VERY low. 157 peak rwhp, 176 ft-lb max torque. (the gain between the runs was achieved solely by tuning the electromotive timing graph) Why is the power so low? I paid over $1k for what was supposedly a top notch head job. In return, I got back my E31 head cracked, littered with sand, and "assembled" (if you could call it that) with far too mild a cam. I had no window, I needed the car to run. It was assembled and has been crippled like this for 3 years now, but is rarely driven. Needless to say, I was pissed beyond my capacity. The car is still a blast to drive, beats most v8s, but the power isnt where it should be. So basically this just goes to show you that it only takes one weak link to ruin a potentially powerful engine. Especially head work. As many of you know, I am getting to redo my head and upgrade my 3x2 40mm dcoes to one of TWM's hex throttle body setups. Well, probably. I still haven't decided for sure. Regardless, I hope to get over 250rwhp when I rebuild.

Thanks for the throttle response thoughts. The more I look into this FI stuff, the more confused I get. TWM offers a DCOE manifold conversion where you stick the throttle bodies at the end of your intake manifold where the carbs used to be. http://www.twminduction.com/ThrottleBody/ThrottleBody-FR.html I am referring to the 2900 series here. I also see that Top End Performance seems to have put a few of these kits together successfully. However, I am weary of doing business with them again. http://www.racetep.com/ztripdcoe.html#twmtbod The picture at the very bottom is what looks to me to be the DCOE replacement. TWM also has manifold/throttle body kit (throttle bodies built into a custom manifold they manufacture) that will be available for L6s later this year. The website says march 2004, but an email I got today said it will be closer to september. http://www.twminduction.com/ThrottleBody/ThrottleBody-FR.html I am referring to the 2000 series here. TWM estimates the kit will be ~$3k when it is released. It would include fuel rails, fuel regulators, and injectors. BTW, TWM seemed to think that 48mm would be better for me since I don't plan on pushing 8,000 rpms full time like a road racer would be. Just thought I'd share my internet/email findings thus far. I will make some phone calls tomorrow to get some of my questions answered.

Wow. I think I might be sold (just checked out the TWM site). So I guess my next question is...why have you only seen 2 Zs with a setup like this?

thanks a lot, guys. that was a lot of help. are there more insurance companies like hagerty? best of luck, mark PS... Mike KZ, how did you fit dual exhaust under your Z? Thats awesome!

Dan: Thanks for the valve lift details. I'll call Sunbelt again tomorrow. Okay, Dan. I have to admit that I'm actually toying with the idea knowing that my 40dcoe's are too small. I know nothing about FI, but you say with that setup that it would sound like my webers do? You also say I wouldn't lose any throttle response? If those are both true than I just may go with FI! This 3x2 50mm throttle body setup...are you talking about FIs or DCOEs? How much cash are we talking about? If this is as good as it sounds, I'd also be able to use my Electromotive igntion to its fuller potential. Not to mention tuning based on seasons and climate wouldn't be hard at all. I do have one rule about spending significant amounts of cash regarding something I know nothing about: I make sure others agree. You other NA voices out there agree? Again, thanks so much for your time, guys. -Mark

Hey guys. Problem: insurance companies say the Zs are worth $2-3k if something were to happen. If I were to mandate that the car is covered for say $20k vice $2k, the premium jumps to over $1500 for six months. Ridiculous! I have heard that there are companies that specialize in insuring antique cars and the like. Any of you guys have solutions? Like most of us, I have a lot of money invested in my Z and I want to protect myself... Thanks.

I gave Jim at Sunbelt a call and he's looking into whether or not I would need valve reliefs in my pistons to clear the valve lift. I bought the big bore kit directly from Nissan Competition in 1998. (R.I.P.) Does anybody know if those pistons can clear .525-.550" valve lift? The catalog I bought the parts from say that the pistons have a positive deck height of .025", but I have no idea how to use that information. Chances are it will have to be measured since there is no way of knowing the history of shavings, especially since I will likely use a 1mm gasket. Chances are that I will just have to get a set of custom forged pistons. And I thought at least my block was done right. How dissappointing. On the bright side, it will give me a chance to swap in some prettier pulleys for the re-balance, getter some better paint on the block, and gut the engine bay to clean up the wires and give it a fresh coat of paint. Might as well do my planned tranny and ATB 4.11 diff swap then, too. As for John Bs idea of dyno plots, why not start a stickie where each graph submitted also has the member's comments with the cars setup. One for NA, one for Turbos? I'm sure this isn't a new idea. Administrators? Damn, this is gonna cost some serious cash...I may have to wait a bit to get it done. Okay what really happens is a loan gets taken and paid off later while I'm out to sea. Let's be honest here.... ...I can't wait...

Wow this is awesome! I'm definately going to give Sunbelt a call here very soon. I have been unable to find the Defcon 1 thread aforementioned. Is it too old to show up in a search? Fuel injectors? No offense Dan, but NO WAY! Sure the numbers and ease of design might be better, but the throttle response, FUN, sound, and purity of the car would be compromised. I would never get rid of that beautiful sound! As for the 44/45 vs 40 DCOEs discussion, is there a business that really knows what they are doing and can give me jet and choke sizes that work best for this setup? Everywhere I've looked I was told "sorry man, no one knows how to touch those things, its a lost art. Hell, I wouldn't even know where to get the jets" Or is it strictly the ole "each engine is its own beast" and you just have to experiment to find what works best? I'd like to see how good I can get the 40s to run before I jump up to bigger carbs.