Guest Anonymous Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 Some progress... Finding headers that fit well wasn't difficult. The FRPP "street rod" block hugger style headers fit well. They're cheap, too, even in the ceramic-coated version. (Retail is $150, or $220 coated.) The coating is very well done, fwiw. The headers look great. I do have a few peeves, however. The collectors are 2-1/4". I assumed they were 2-1/2". As soon as I unboxed the headers and saw those 2-1/4" collectors, I saw my hp target drop a bit. So now it's going to be dual 2-1/4", Y-ing into a single 3" right before (or should it be after?) the rearend. Anyone have any ideas whether or not a balance tube near the front would help? Also, since the collectors point downward, and I plan to lower the engine as much as possible, the bend right after the collector flange will have to be severe. More lowering of my hp sights... The associated problems of doing an engine plate have been bothering me. It then occured to me that some engine plates hang off between the water pump and front cover, rather than front cover and block. This would help simplify matters for me. On the other hand, I do have some question as to the strength and reliability of such a mounting scheme. Comments? Experiences? If that scheme works, the only remaining problem is that the rear of the engine will not be supported at all with the transmission removed. This will make maintenance more of a chore. I'm considering doing a rear plate as well, but I don't really like that idea. If there were an easier way to hang a couple of mounts off the rear of the block somewhere... I spoke with Dave at Arizona Z last night. We spoke a bit about suspensions and brakes. I think I will bite the bullet and purchase the brake setup they make using Wilwood calipers. Only up front. In the rear I'll leave the stock drums for a while, eventually converting to ZX discs. Unless the drums end up working really well, of course. (Most of the competitive FP Datsuns I've seen use rear drums.) Fow how I explained my purpose for the car, he suggested 500lb/in coilovers at all 4 corners. He also suggested a rear anti-roll bar. Granted, I have no Z experience, but with high power to weight ratios no rear bar seems to work best. I'm not sure what I'll do there. I'll probably leave it off and only replace it if I feel there's to much understeer. Anyhow, that's my update. Next on my short list, before all the exotic brake and suspension stuff, is an R200, an LSD carrier, and whatever I need to convert to a hydraulic clutch on my Mustang T-5. ------------------ Michael Sen-Roy Houston Performance 281-893-6080 ------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 quote: Originally posted by HP Tech: Some progress... Anyone have any ideas whether or not a balance tube near the front would help? I'd think it would still be worthwhile. With the Y way back at the diff, it's essentially an H-pipe way back there, right? I'd think that wouldn't do much for scavenging. I vote for an H-pipe (or an X-pipe like I have - even better?) just behind the trans crossmember. quote: ... It then occured to me that some engine plates hang off between the water pump and front cover, rather than front cover and block. Yeah, I don't like that idea either. The aluminum timing cover is a thin casting and the through bolts don't inspire confidence. I'd do the motor plate between the block and timing cover. quote: ...I spoke with Dave at Arizona Z last night. We spoke a bit about suspensions and brakes. I think I will bite the bullet and purchase the brake setup they make using Wilwood calipers. I have that system front and rear. No data yet as the car is still not on the road. But I've heard that for similar money and the trouble of custom mounting, the Baer calipers are much more rigid than the Wilwoods, due to there center rib design. I'd look into that. I think Wilwood will make a rotor hat to your design, and then you could use their rotors. The AZ Z front caliper bolts right on to the 240Z strut, and a simple 1/2" spacer is included to use on the 280Z strut. I'd bet a study of both company's drawings would show that the critical dimensions would work out very close. Just a thought. It may be more trouble than it's worth. quote: Fow how I explained my purpose for the car, he suggested 500lb/in coilovers at all 4 corners. He also suggested a rear anti-roll bar. Granted, I have no Z experience, but with high power to weight ratios no rear bar seems to work best. I'm not sure what I'll do there. I'll probably leave it off and only replace it if I feel there's to much understeer. Wow. 500 lb/in! Remember Dave is a road racer. I don't know your intended use, but that's a very stiff spring for such a light car. You'd better put a 10 point cage tied very well to the towers in a bunch of directions if you use those springs. Other wise the car will start to undo itself, from what I've heard. Sounds like the project is really moving along! [This message has been edited by pparaska (edited May 17, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted May 19, 2000 Share Posted May 19, 2000 Beware..... Dave @ ArizonaZ is a nut. He is the one that sent me some super stiff 500# springs for my first lowering job... Car was the owrst handling street car I ever drove and it wasn't much better on the track. I'd also recommend the full Wilwood brake swap as I have the ZX rear swap and it isn't the best for severe driving. Also, I have the rear sway bar on the car and I found the car tracks better with it... Much better! Mike ------------------ "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 19, 2000 Share Posted May 19, 2000 Pete, I have thought about an X. I do those all of the time for customers, and our dyno proves they work. But no one I know makes a 2-1/4" X. Ideas? (I also like the way they sound.) I've looked into custom hats. A pair is almost $400. Add the cost of those PBR calipers (which if you shop around is about $180/pr), and some adapter brackets. Now add the cost of rotors. I think the Arizona Z kit, considering they did all of the work for me, is pretty good. Also, the PBR calipers aren't more rigid than Wilwoods. The difference is that they're a sliding caliper design. The pads are retained by the slider bracket, and all the caliper does is squeeze. This separation of forces has many advantages. It's an awesome design, I've raced many cars with this caliper setup, and it's _really_ good. The Wilwood is a fixed caliper. This setup needs a very rigid spindle and hub, else deflection knocks the caliper pistons back in. I have heard some bad stories about resulting pedal feel when adapting Wilwoods to certain cars. If all the ugliness is kept in check (I really know nothing about the Z spindle and hub suitability to this task), the Wilwood caliper should outperform a street-oriented caliper like the PBR. Would've, could've, should've... Don't really know what I'll do. Most likely I'll do what's easiest, in the interest of actually getting to drive this car some day. Mike and Pete, Ya, while I think a true racecar might work well with 500lb/in springs, I was thinking of something less than that for myself. I have some aspirations of competing in EM (Solo II). The National EM Champion races in this area, in a rotary-powered Sprite. So I do want to be competitive, even if at the cost of comfort. Still, I was thinking of something more in the 350lb/in rate. Lastly, I'm generally anti-anti-roll bars. I think they're a necessary evil, so it's best to keep the front one small and the rear one missing. Anyhow, this is what has worked for me in other cars, the Z could well prove me wrong. I have 2 Zs now, btw. I'm doing the swap on a '74 260, and I'm driving a '70 240. The 240 has springs of unknown origin, Konis up front and Tokicos in the rear, hard bushings, and a front bar only. I think it's an awesome handling car, I couldn't ask for much better. Hauls butt, too, I'm going faster than I should be for being on 185 Continentals. If I could package the same basic handling balance of my 240, and put it in the 260 (just with lots more grip, braking, and power), I'll be extremely happy! ------------------ Michael Sen-Roy Houston Performance 281-893-6080 ------------------ [This message has been edited by HP Tech (edited May 18, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 17, 2000 Share Posted September 17, 2000 I know this message comes months late to this topic, but I'll offer a opinion on the X pipe and this is for any size you want to fabricate. Use two 2 1/4 (or needed size) 45 degree (or 90's if you have the room) find the middle of outside radius of the pipe and lope off a portion of the outside equally on both pipes with a band saw (or hacksaw if your skilled although being as straight may be a trick to keep it squared up). Put the two cuts together and check to see if they are the same, or any material has to be removed with tin snips, file or rotary grinder. Once your happy with the fit, clamp them squarely and flat together and tack weld the joint. Weld the joint in small beads around this joint (using mig, tig, stick, torch or whatever you prefer). It should look like this (crudely): / / X / / / / / Voila, X pipe cross over for what, 7.00 bucks or less depending on the price of your pipe. I hope this little post wasn't so basic everyone is bored to death reading it and is wondering why I wasted your time with it. Just trying to save bucks where I can and this isn't a hard project. If the above ascii drawing gets slaughtered in edit, I think the above is explained well enough to get the idea. Hope it helps. Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted September 17, 2000 Share Posted September 17, 2000 Lonehdrider, I want to welcome you to the forum. Just this morning I've ready a few very intelligent posts by you, this one I decided to respond to. Glad you joined! When I got my X-pip from Dr. Gas, it was about $90 just for the X, no other parts. I looked at it and got immediately pi$$ed at myself for not just making one myself. All it was were two 90 degree pipes, probably 2-1/4" in diameter that were probably mandrel bent and expanded on the ends to accept 2-1/2" pipe. They, of course made it exactly as you describe. The only thing I can say is I might not be able to weld down in the trough between the pipes at the front and back. So maybe $90 wasn't so bad. [This message has been edited by pparaska (edited September 17, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 18, 2000 Share Posted September 18, 2000 quote: Originally posted by pparaska: Lonehdrider, I want to welcome you to the forum. Just this morning I've ready a few very intelligent posts by you, this one I decided to respond to. Glad you joined! When I got my X-pip from Dr. Gas, it was about $90 just for the X, no other parts. I looked at it and got immediately pi$$ed at myself for not just making one myself. All it was were two 90 degree pipes, probably 2-1/4" in diameter that were probably mandrel bent and expanded on the ends to accept 2-1/2" pipe. They, of course made it exactly as you describe. The only thing I can say is I might not be able to weld down in the trough between the pipes at the front and back. So maybe $90 wasn't so bad. [This message has been edited by pparaska (edited September 17, 2000).] Thanks, I appreciate the welcome to the forum which by the way is awesome. Yeah, welding between would be snug, what can be done and what I've done in the past (using a mig welder) to get in between is to modify the outside copper gas cone to get in a little better (they make them to order like this, but why bother, its not rocket science to make). The outside gas cone on the torch would look like this: / / <-- Cut both sides at a 45 | | |__| This makes it a tad easier, although your right its tight, perhaps even brazing in that area. Oh well, thanks for the welcome, I hope to be back often. Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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