Guest firebern Posted March 3, 2001 Share Posted March 3, 2001 Hi everybody, I am ahead of schedule and I am starting my V8 conversion this week. I made a deal with some guy to get the 302 out of the mustang with everything else: ecu, harness, tranny, driveshaft, exhaust, radiator. He takes the rest of the body in return. I guess this is a good deal. Anyways, I am concerned about the clutch. Terry had to find this master cylinder from an old datsun truck, I'll never find one. I was wondering if I should keep the mustangs cylinders? Isn't it possible to buy an aftermarket master and slave for a couple of bucks? If I kept the mustang's would I have to take the pedal too or could I keep the Datsun pedals? Thanks, Fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 Hunt aorund here for information on the Tilton or McLoed (sp?) hydraulic throw out bearing. Figure out what master it needs. Tilton clutch masters aren't too pricey, I got mine from Pegusus Racing Supply and there are sizes that I'm sure ouwl be suited for your applicaiton. Using the Mustang's pedals and whatnot would require a ton of work as they're probably cable operated - yes? What year Mustang? If it's a 302 HO I don't think any year with that used a hydraulic activated clutch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 BLKMGK says it pretty plainly. IMHO the hydraulic throwout bearing is the way to go. The master that I used with this eventually went to a Girling 3/4" and it had the same bolt pattern as the Z OEM one did. The only difference was some minor work on the end of the pushrod where it connects to the Z pedal. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 I got this info from another Ford guy from this site. Use the Tilton hydraulic throw-out bearing P/N 61-601 with the 61-612 adaptor, and the 74-875U master cylinder. You will also need to buy a 4AN to 3/16 brake line adaptor. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firebern Posted March 5, 2001 Share Posted March 5, 2001 The engine and tranny are out of the mustang with the complete wiring harness. It uses a shifter cable not an hydraulic clutch. I misread the Haynes book. Reading those wiring diagrams, I need a microscope. Anyways, anybody knows if I can buy a screw in clutch pedal for a ford tranny? I got the gaz pedal but the clutch shares the brakes bracket. I got the emission system on mine, I see the controllers for those are part of the ECU, I am putting a 3" exhaust and I was thinking of getting rid of this mess(pump, hoses and vaccums on the left side), will this screw the iginition(I mean does the computer do any calculation from the readings)? Thanks for the help, Fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74_5.0L_Z Posted March 5, 2001 Share Posted March 5, 2001 I have a 5.0L and 5 speed in my 1974 260. I use a Tilton hydraulic throw out bearing and clutch master cylinder. The clutch works great. Here is the post that I made last year regarding the clutch "I am using the Tilton hydraulic throw-out bearing in my 5.0 / T5 Ford powered 260Z. The pedal action is very smooth and as light as the factory Z clutch. I am using the Tilton 74-875U universal master cylinder to operate the clutch. The master cylinder has a 7/8" bore, and bolts directly to the firewall using the factory studs. The clutch disengages about 1.5 inches above the floor, but is not bothersome. I have only been driving the car for about 2 weeks but so far I really like the clutch. The part numbers for the Ford T5 setup are 61-601 for the bearing itself, and 61-612 for the adapter. The adapter replaces the input bearing retainer, and the bearing screws onto the adapter. The adapter also provides much sturdier support of the input bearing than the stock T5 unit. Finally, the Tilton master cylinder, hydraulic throw-out bearing, adapter, and all necessary hardware cost me 423.00 from J&J racing." I have used the clutch now for 9 months (70 miles/day) without any problems. Good luck, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74_5.0L_Z Posted March 5, 2001 Share Posted March 5, 2001 Regarding the pedals, keep the stock ones. The Tilton master cylinder is a direst bolt on (just change or modify the clevis). For the gas pedal I calculated the mechanical advantage ratio of the stock mustang pedal, then I cut the top of the datsun pedal to achieve same ratio. I then hammered top of datsun pedal flat to approximate 1/8" and drilled a hole to accept ford throttle cable. Sounds cheap but has worked perfectly for 9 months. Another option would be to get an aftermarket throttle cable(LOKAR). For the emmission, get rid of the air pump. Make sure that you plug the hole in the back of the head. Keep the EGR. At part throttle, the computer calculated air fuel based on a certain portion of Inert mixture, and also increses the timing. If the EGR is removed the result will be a lean mixture and possible detonation. Beside the EGR is only active at part throttle cruise, and increases gas milage and reduces emissions. I don't know what you plan to use for a fuel pump. I am using an MSD (P/N 2225) inline pump. It's rated at 43 GPH at 39 psi(more than twice the capacity of the factory 5.0 pump. It also only costs 110.00. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firebern Posted March 5, 2001 Share Posted March 5, 2001 So if I get this rigth I can still use an hydraulic clutch even if my mustang used a steel cable. Does the Tilton slave fits in the same bracket as the cable and pulls or do I have to drill holes in the tranny and it will push? As for the gas pedal, I am going to keep the stock one and do as you mentioned. The gaz pump was my next question, I was looking for a good one, since my old Datsun pump was leaking so I'll grab an MSD, it sounds good to me. What did you do for the wiring harness, did you buy a new one or fiddle a used one? I am not sure but I think ford sell a complete no fuss harness for hot rods? I have the complete wiring harness of the car even the dash harness, the guys just wanted to get it done this weekend so since nobody knew if I needed some other part they took it out. I want to separate the engine wiring from the rest of the electrical system.There are two plugs I have to figure out. Later, Fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74_5.0L_Z Posted March 7, 2001 Share Posted March 7, 2001 The Tilton set-up that I referred to doesn't use a slave cylinder. A hydraulic throw-out bearing uses a piston built-in to the bearing to actuate the clutch. With this set-up, there is no fork. A hydraulic line goes to the bearing from the master cylinder. As for the wiring harness, I used the stock harness. It essentially stands alone. Just mount the relays, supply power and ground. I also used the Ford starter relay. I only used the engine harness, and the extension that goes to the HEGOs, and VSS. If you don't have the HEGO's then buy the Ford Motorsport relay kit that contains them. It includes a new fuel pump relay, WAC relay, ECU power relay, TAB, TAD, 2 HEGOs, and EVR valve. If these terms are not familiar, then get the EEC-IV book by Charles Probst. It was one of the most valuable tools for understanding how this system works. The book also comes with great wiring diagrams. Be sure to use a 1991-1993 starter. They use a factory mini-starter. The earlier starter(1989) is much larger, and interfered with my headers (Dynomax block-huggers). Good Luck, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firebern Posted March 7, 2001 Share Posted March 7, 2001 Just in time, Dan! Thanks, for your advice. They took out the complete wiring harness and I took everything that was under the hood except for the ligths, wiper motor, washer and brakes(you get the point), so I should have all those things. I'll get this book on the electronics, I'm just too busy with the mechanic to stop at the store. One guy told me that I needed to replace the main bearing seal, some oil is leaking from the tranny to engine seal. I will try to do this today. As for the clutch, I want to see if I can find a clutch pedal with mount for mustangs. The mustangs is real simple, a simple steel cable, easy to fix and to install, no mess. I'd prefer this to an hydraulic clutch. I just want ot keep it simple. I lowered the engine in the car tuesday nigth. I am amazed by the fact that the Datsun tranny crosmember fits! Even the shifter fits in the hole, I will probably cut 1 inch up front to get a good clearance. How much clearance did you keep between the engine and firewall? I have two to three inches. That clears the crossmember with a dual sump oil pan, I get an inch clearance over the crossmember. Is this good enough? Later, Fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firebern Posted March 8, 2001 Share Posted March 8, 2001 Ok, I understand how your clutch works now. Nevermind my last post. I think it will be the simplest solution. Thanks, Fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 There is a way to do a hydraulic clutch without having to split tranny off the engine. It is to keep the Ford cable clutch fork (you will have to dent the tunnel a little) and use a Neal slave cylinder. These cylinders put the fluid in the rod end instead of the blind end so they pull instead of push. They are primarily used by VW sandrail and formula-V guys to eliminate thier rod actuated clutches. To do this, the rod end of the cylinder pushes on the tab on the flywheel housing where the end of the cable sheath of a mustang cable used to end. Put a threaded coupling (I think it is 5/16 fine) on the end of rod and a bolt in the other end of the coupling of sufficient length to go through the hole in the fork. Put a rocker arm fulcrum ball under the head of the bolt. Also put some kind of plastic bushing in the cable hole in the flywheel housing so the rod is not scratched up, and add a simple bracket to stabilize the back of the cylinder (it doesn't see any load). At the pedal end, use the usual Tildon master cylinder with a 1" bore. The bore size I use on the Neal cylinder is 7/8". The pedal feel is great, not too stiff, very linear and firm. Anyway, this is just another way of doing clutch actuation, but without a cable or having to split the trans from the engine. If someone out there doesn't understand this, let me know, I'll draw it up and post it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firebern Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 Excellent, Sunday, I was realizing that if the cable pulled maybe I Could find a pulling cylinder. So I looked on the web for this and found Jamar performance that had a couple for, like you said, VW buggys. But I wasn't sure this could be done here. I am glad you did it. I am not sure but I think you are the first one to mention it. I think this is one of the simplest solutions to the tranny problem. Thanks, Fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firebern Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 Actually, If you could send me a draw of your setup, this would help. Later, Fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted March 21, 2001 Share Posted March 21, 2001 A "pull" type slave cylinder is about $60 from the Speedway parts catalog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 23, 2001 Share Posted March 23, 2001 This is my sketch of the pulling slave cylinder. Keep in mind that the Master/slave ratio I used, 1" Master, 7/8" slave works great with my T5 but may not necessarily be exactly right for your application. Don Becker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted March 23, 2001 Share Posted March 23, 2001 I have a short body AP Racing 1" diameter M/C that needs to have a reservoir put on if any one is interested. You can keep the WW bottle in the stock location when using this. The M/C only has a few dozen pushes on it, as it was too big for my uses. These puppies are expensive, but it's not doing me any good - make me an offer if you're interested. I also have a replacement O-ring kit for it. ------------------ Pete Paraska - 73 540Z - Marathon Z Project pparaska@home.com Pete's V8 Datsun 240Z Pages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 24, 2001 Share Posted March 24, 2001 My attempt above to show my sketch of the pulling slave cylinder didn't work. Below is the link to see it. Thanks to firebern for posting it. http://www.geocities.com/bern_on_yahoo/ClutchLinkageByDon.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 22, 2001 Share Posted May 22, 2001 Although this is my first time writing to all fo you. I have been reading these posts to for months. Anyway I have a ton of questions? -When I use the wiring harness(90 5.0 HO) I know, by just looking, I will have a ton of wires not connected. Is this Safe? -I dont want to have to buy a new harness, mine is in good shape, so a little more advise would help. -For the cluth my 72Z is an auto , so do I mount the entire mustang clutch.I used to be into bugs, so I understand the sandrail idea(ie:elemenate rod)I really cannot afford the entire niel set-up, so what now.???Is there another cluth system avalable for cheap? -Motor Mounts!! So Many different ways which one to choose. To Terry(Blue OValZ)Once you bolt the plate imbetween the engine and water pump where are your attacment points exactly? To many others I would love TRUE specs on the motor mounts, not just a pictue. PLEASE. THANKX A MILLION, Wally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 22, 2001 Share Posted May 22, 2001 Although this is my first time writing to all fo you. I have been reading these posts to for months. Anyway I have a ton of questions? -When I use the wiring harness(90 5.0 HO) I know, by just looking, I will have a ton of wires not connected. Is this Safe? -I dont want to have to buy a new harness, mine is in good shape, so a little more advise would help. -For the cluth my 72Z is an auto , so do I mount the entire mustang clutch.I used to be into bugs, so I understand the sandrail idea(ie:elemenate rod)I really cannot afford the entire niel set-up, so what now.???Is there another cluth system avalable for cheap? -Motor Mounts!! So Many different ways which one to choose. To Terry(Blue OValZ)Once you bolt the plate imbetween the engine and water pump where are your attacment points exactly? To many others I would love TRUE specs on the motor mounts, not just a pictue. PLEASE. THANKX A MILLION, Wally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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