stony Posted October 1, 2001 Share Posted October 1, 2001 this isnt a ford engine question but a nine inch rearend question.... Ive seen stangs with 4 lug patterns and ive been told that they are 4 x 4 1/2 lug pattern. my question is what type of rearend do these stangs come with Nine inch ????? brakes disc or drums???? im shopping for a rearend for my backhalf z project and would like to keep using my 4 4 1/2 10 inch wide watanabes ;> thanks for the info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy 77zt Posted October 1, 2001 Share Posted October 1, 2001 it is a 8.8 inch ring gear that loads from rear like a chevy.ford hasnt made a 9" in years.last 9s were in half ton vans in late 80s.you can get a 8.8 irs rear from a late model v8 tbird or mark 8.8.8 is good for about 500 hp.most 9" stuf is aftermarkit now and is bucks but you canstill get a 3.55 9 from a van. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted October 1, 2001 Author Share Posted October 1, 2001 ahhh i c ok i definatly want a solid rear axle so i guess ill go with something like that....how easy would it be to convert a 5 lug pattern to 4 lug on the nine inch rearend out of say the van or truck???? would the z disc brake setup fit on it somehow or am i looking at a custom mod? cheaper to just get a set of 5 lugs draglites? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy 77zt Posted October 1, 2001 Share Posted October 1, 2001 on lug patterns-you will need custom axles made-like strange engineering.places like currie will build a custom width axle to your specs-try $1500 to $2000 for an axle.9" had axle retained by pressed on bearings-you have to get special retainers to hold axle in .if you are really serious about drag racing the $2000 axle is worth it-by the time you piece some old junk together and narrow it and put in detroit locker or arb air locker you will have almost that much into it.for a drag -street car i would run air locker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted October 1, 2001 Author Share Posted October 1, 2001 i was told you can cut and respline the ford axle???? this sounds like the cheapest route for now. 2000 for axles???? didnt think they were that expensive....im shooting for a mid nine second car. the only reason im going with the solid axle is for the rules. I want to be able to go take some money from the guys at the track ... anyways well see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted October 1, 2001 Author Share Posted October 1, 2001 as far as axle retainer i was thinking welding on an oldsmobile end cap. i was told this works better??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted October 1, 2001 Share Posted October 1, 2001 Understand that the 8.8 uses C-clips and that you'd have to run C-lip "eliminators" - these have a reputation for leaking and can't take side loads. You CAN run an 8.8 with 9inch ends though. Not sure what the total cost is but this is how some folks get around the c-clip issue. I want to say it was Baer doing this but I'm not sure. Will try to remember. Will this be drag only or street too? And are you sure the 9inch went out of production? What are the F350 trucks using? The big vans? Not that it really matters in this case to be honest. Guys I know simply goto the junkyard, grab rears, and shorten them up on the shop floor. They don't mind 5lugs though (lol). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scca Posted October 1, 2001 Share Posted October 1, 2001 AFAIK the stangs with a 4 lug are NOT 4 on 4.5".. unless your talking a early 65-67 6 cylinder car then they are 4 on 4.5" all newer mustangs are a different bolt pattern..... best bet is to buy a 9" from a older wagon and then shorten it. the narrowist rearend i believe is 57"??? this is the same as 65-6 mustang, and lincoln continental and granada the lincoln USED to be the hot one to get as it came with disks on it..and would bolt into a 66.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsil Posted October 1, 2001 Share Posted October 1, 2001 Early Ford 4-lug pattern: 4 on 4.5" Late Ford 4-lug pattern: 4 on 4.25" All auto 5-lug patterns: 5 on 4.5" All Truck/Van 5-lug Patterns: 5 on 5.5" There are still many 9" rear ends available. Unfortunately, the gears are usually 2.73:1 or 3.0:1 on the Auto models, Don't even bother with a Truck rear end, they had their own special setups. And not many came with them, only the early ones, before the larger 9.75" or the smaller 8" (both w/o drop out center sections). The early 9" was 57" hub to hub, but they slowly widened them to 61" by 1971. There was a great article on 9" Fords in Hot Rod a while back, check that. If you're going 9", you should probably go 5 lug, as no 9" rear ends came with 5-lug from the factory. Not even the Versailles rear ends witht he discs did. All 5-lug. The Mustang 8.8 is plenty strong, and is still used. If you want strength, either is a good choice. You may have to cut all the brackets off the 8.8 to use, the only extra thing you may need to do compared to the 9". MAKE SURE TO GET THE C-CLIP ELIMINATORS, the c-clip is going to be the weak point on those for High HP, which is what I assume you're putting it in for. You could also use an 8" rear end, but not if you're going over 350hp. It can handle a lot, but put too much torque to it and it will snap. But for less that 350/350 it will work fine, and uses the same kind of architecture as the 9', just slightly smaller. They are plentiful, as they were used in Mustangs, Cougars, Mavericks, Granadas, Mercury Monarchs, Falcons, and Mustang II's. Cheap alternative. Al [ October 01, 2001: Message edited by: alsil ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 2, 2001 Share Posted October 2, 2001 Hey guys I have a ford nine inch in my Z, but ask your self this, What makes a ford nine inch better than lets say a 10bolt, 12bolt or even a 7.5,8.2,or 8.8, Dana 60,70,. Before you start throwing rocks, look at the NHRA Super Stock and see what they running. Ford nine inch were the hot ticket in the OLD DAYS, Because the axles could be cut and respline, the axles were retain by the axle housing instead of a c-clip, you had a wide range of gears to choose from, the ring gear is slightly larger, and pinion bearing. The gear setup could be mocked up on the bench and then install it in the housing.Remember the its not the lightest rearend. All ford 9 inches are not created equal. Regardless of the rear end you choose, it requires you modifying it to suit your needs, that includes reinforcing it. Personally I would choose a 10 bolt rearend. They are a dime a dozen and very light,which will keep the intial cost down. Both rearend have to be modify in the same areas. Once modify it will take the same abuse as a ford 9 inch Axles cost about $299.00 to $499.00 depending on the brand and strength. price for a rearend 10bolt $10-50 complete. 9inch $350-$500(even bad), cut and narrow $100.00, gears $150.00, bracing $100.00, axles $300.00, add $130 for c-clip elimnator for 10bolt. Do the math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted October 2, 2001 Share Posted October 2, 2001 Hrm, and don't forget while you're figuring this all out that the Z weighs a bunch less than some other cars. Figure what would work in a Pinto or Vega maybe? Heh, then again my Vega had a 9inch in it Scottie, you researched this a ton - what did you find? i think you were looking hard at 8.8s right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 2, 2001 Share Posted October 2, 2001 Not to argue what you said about the 9", but one of the reason the 9" is as strong as it is, has nothing to do with how heavy it is. ( Try benching a R230 and tell me the 9" pumpkin is heavy, big and made of iron = heavy no matter how you slice it) The reason 9" Fords are desirable is the angle on the gear set is such that you have more contact on the ring and pinion gears. Check it out, the pinion is lower on a 9" than on the 10 and 12 bolt rear ends. The 2.73 gears might be a little deep, but I could live nicely with a 3.08 (Be nice to have a 1st gear with the T56 that was good for something other than just crawling.) Personally even though the 9" is heavy, what better place to put the weight might I ask for increased traction? For my car, the HP will be such that a 9" that was cut down, using stock axles would be all the rear end I'd ever need. But then again I don't plan on running slicks and sick amounts of power (well no slicks anyway). I just want better gears and something where I don't have to think about stub axles, cv's, halfshalfs, bad diff mounts, strange vibrations etc ever again. Oh well, thats my usual 3.1416 cents. Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 2, 2001 Share Posted October 2, 2001 You'll need to find out for sure, but 9" axles can be resplined, but I believe only in the 31 spline configuration, the other one (what was it, 29? spline foggy here) is tappered and can't be resplined. 9"'s are still out there, as Randy said sometimes expensive, but if your willing to look around, not to hard to find. I saw several in the autowrecker search engines for fairly reasonable. 8.8's out of a fox bodied mustang are 4 lug (can't remember the pattern but it might be 4x4.25 can't recall, I think its the same as the other drilling on my Weld wheels.), and maybe even close to the right width (unless your tubbing out the car and want some foot wides back there. ). Not sure on what it cost to mod a 8.88 with all the strong stuff. I would guess that the axles would be the thing that breaks, afterall the ring gear is within 2 tenths of 9"'s. I know there is the C clip issue as Jim mentioned just like 10 and 12 bolt chevy's and axle retainers that need to be installed. Please, post pictures if you do this, I'm real interested to see how a solid rear end conversion goes. Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted October 2, 2001 Share Posted October 2, 2001 I had a very short 9" on my 66 stang. It came out of a '58 Ford 4 door. These late 50's Fords used the short (same size as the OEM early Mustang rear ends) with the five lug pattern. Not sure of the diameter of the pattern, but back then the 4 lug pattern was 4.5". Now I think it is 4.25" or 4.75", but it is not the same as up till the mid to late '70s. The 31 spine 9" axles can be resplined because the axle is thicker than the splined area, but the 28 spline ones where quite a bit narrower, and as Lone said, tappered down a couple of inches outward of the splines. I found it was quite easy putting the OEM '66 GT front rotors and 4 piston calipers on the back of these axles (as I did this on mine), and would be a good complement to the aftermarket front brakes currently available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy 77zt Posted October 2, 2001 Share Posted October 2, 2001 what makes a 9" so strong is that the pinion is supported behind the pinion gear.the $2000 gor a currie rear end is for a complete custom built axle ready to bolt in with all new high tech parts-no old junk.i just check on a custom built 9 for the 66 nova /96 lt1 project in my garage.i am using a narro0wed 8.8 out of 87 tbird turbo-has 3.55 and trakloc stock-i am having a set of custom axles made . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted October 2, 2001 Share Posted October 2, 2001 The bearing at the end of the pinion gear does a lot to keep the pinion from pushing away from the ring gear, but in general these things are built very well and heavy. I had one of the original "N" nodular castings, which was reported to be even stronger. I have no idea, but I'd guess that the center section before being put into the axle case, weighed around 80lbs. Another thing I liked about them was that no shims are used on the carrier, just threaded caps to adjust, which made a set-up super easy, and it could be done on a bench, and when finished, just throw it back into the axle housing. And IMHO, nothing beat the feel of a "locker" in it. I think this is more sentimental than fact though. Ah yes, those were the good ol' days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 2, 2001 Share Posted October 2, 2001 Randy, if you don't mind my asking, what are the axles for the 8.8 going to run? Thanks, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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