alsil Posted October 10, 2001 Share Posted October 10, 2001 Hey guys, I am talking to one of the guys here about a 1965 289 (6-bolt) he has for sale. Looks like a good deal, gonna look at it Saturday. A couple of things I am concerned about: -Crankshaft Dampner. I need to have the 4-bolt dampner on my engine because of the serpentine belt setup I am using. I think I read somewhere the dampner on the later engines uses a different counterbalance than the older ones. Is this true, or can I use the one on my '95 5.0 on it? -Flywheel. Almost the same question, does it use a different counterbalance? -Oil dipstick. I know that they use newer motors in old Mustangs, which requires moving the dipstick to the front cover using the early timing cover, but not the other way around. The '65 289 has no provision for a dipstick on the driver's side, and a front-cover mounted dipstick will do no good with a rear sump oil pan. any ideas? I thought about drilling a hole in the side of the block, but I think that's a bad idea. I am really weighing out the possible extra expenditures of doing this, because I have a brand new clutch (that fits the 5.0 flywheel) and don't want to switch to a v-belt setup, or go without an oil dipstick. what do you guys think? Thanks AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted October 10, 2001 Share Posted October 10, 2001 You're going to have damper, flywheel, and dipstick issues. You heard correctly about the balance issues and the accessory problems. I believe there's a damper that can be used though and you'd have to use the 289 flywheel or have one rebalanced. Not sure what to do about the dipstick - drilling into the block doesn't sound atractive. Check with "Windsor Fox" for some solutions. Those guy specialize in retrofitting older Mustangs with newer EFI motors and will probably have some answers for you. Frankly I think sticking to a later model 5.0 would be better all aorund - why is the 289 attractive in this case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsil Posted October 10, 2001 Author Share Posted October 10, 2001 Well, it's recently been rebuilt, and has not been run yet. It has some pretty strong stuff in it, and is local. Plus he's not asking a ton for it. But if I have to spend another $500 to make it work, it may not be worth it. Problem with Windsor-Fox is, they don't know anything besides the swap from the late model to early model Mustang. I ran into that problem last time I called them about the wiring harnesses they had. I'll check around. Thanks for the info. AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted October 10, 2001 Share Posted October 10, 2001 The early 289/302's used a 28oz offset balance on the cranks and damper, where the newer 302s used a 50oz off-set flywheel (not sure about the damper on that though). Also, the older flywheels were mostly 164 tooth flywheels while the newer ones are 157 tooth models, which is another fly in the ointment as far as the T-5 use is concerned. I have seen reference and even an Ebay double-hump pan that had a pan provision for the dip stick. Have you considered a front sump only pan. Either way, the pump is still in front and will be the main cause for any clearance issues with the pan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsil Posted October 10, 2001 Author Share Posted October 10, 2001 Crap Crap, I forgot about the tooth difference of the 2 motors! I won't even be able to use my $130 starter. Crap. This is turning into an expensive situation. thanks for the reminder, Terry! Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsil Posted October 10, 2001 Author Share Posted October 10, 2001 Ok, is there a way to have the flywheel / balancer re-balanced for 28oz? (I know, grasping at straws!!!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted October 11, 2001 Share Posted October 11, 2001 Very easily (by a competent shop) being all that has to be done is the removeal of some of the cast-in counterbalance. Even if you had a complete factory assembly, I would (an am going to myself) have the rotating/reciprocating assembly balanced before using it. Here, it costs about $150 to do the whole thing, but if you want to turn some R's (and a 289 will go to 8 grand real easy and hold up well, even with some unsophisticated parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsil Posted October 12, 2001 Author Share Posted October 12, 2001 Ok - if I get the motor, rebalance the flywheel and balancer - I should be able to bolt up my T-5, use my clutch, and blot everything else back up, right? I know the block/trans mating surfaces are the same for the 2 engines, so I should be able to just bolt up my starter, and all the accessories? Are there any other differences I should know about? I know I have to take the backing plate off my 5.0 and use it on the 289. Am I missing anything? AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted October 12, 2001 Share Posted October 12, 2001 The counter balance is very obvious. All that the shop will do is remove the material from this part of the flywheel. Look at this picture http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=596477392&r=0&t=0&showTutorial=0&ed=1003062491&indexURL=0&rd=1 and the middle of the 3 pics will show the counter balance. On the 28oz flywheels, this "wedge" of material at the top is about half the included angle of the one in the picture shown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsil Posted October 12, 2001 Author Share Posted October 12, 2001 Yea, checked the machine shop that I usually go to, they want $350 to balance just the flywheel!!!!! I think that may be a bit steep. Gonna check around. I see what you're talking about. Looks like quite a bit of material. Thanks AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted October 12, 2001 Share Posted October 12, 2001 The shop here in town will balance my entire assembly for about $200. So I would check around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dp351zcar Posted October 12, 2001 Share Posted October 12, 2001 I think that you can use a flywheel off a 351 windsor because they also use a 28oz balance. A stock 70's 302 flywheel should not be very much, or you could buy a aftermarket 157 tooth steel flywheel for a 351/302 with a the newer smaller bellhousing. Look in the summit or PAW catalogs for the flywheels in diffrent weights and sizes to fit your motor. It will not be too hard to find one. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted October 13, 2001 Share Posted October 13, 2001 If you have a 157 tooth flywheel, you should be OK. The early SBF had the 164 tooth flywheel, and then about '86 they went to a 157 tooth flywheel. This smaller diameter flywheel is what the T-5 uses. So what you will need to do is use the later 157 tooth flywheel, and have it rebalanced from the 50 oz offset to the 289's 28 oz offset. Then the T-5 will fit up. I'm using a starter off a '73 ford (some sort). There will be a difference in the amount of gap between the ring gear and the starter case (flush with edge of block) for the SBF starters. They are listed as 3/8" and 3/4". Mine uses the 3/4" gap. Just make sure you know that this gap is important in choosing a starter (I found out by accident) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsil Posted October 13, 2001 Author Share Posted October 13, 2001 Well, if I use the stock starter I have that fits the 5.0 motor, I should be OK, right? the flywheel isn't spaced any different from the block on the early motors, are they? Out of curiosity, where do they remove the material from the flywheel to balance it 28oz? Since I have the 157 tooth flywheel arleady, I thought about just rebalancing it, getting an early 4 bolt balancer, and going for it. What do you think? AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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