DavyZ Posted June 20, 2001 Share Posted June 20, 2001 You might just have to invest in a drop-base airfilter. If that does not work, you could always convert to a cowl-induction hood. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsil Posted June 20, 2001 Share Posted June 20, 2001 well, an aluminum intake could be any, but you will have to go with a cowl hood no matter what with a 351 unless you drop the engine below the crossmember, and even then, I don't think it'll fit. I am using a drop base air filter and a 302 and it barely fits. AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted June 21, 2001 Share Posted June 21, 2001 The 302 does seem to ride rather high in a Z. Is the front sump directly over the stock cross member? Is there any room to notch a piece out of the datsun xmember to allow for the motor to sit lower? Or is it just directly over it...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsil Posted June 21, 2001 Share Posted June 21, 2001 It sits directly over it. there's not much room to notch it, I pounded mine down with a hammer to clear. I got about 1/2". You can move the engine back another 1", but then the oil pan is below the crossmember, and I find that too dangerous. Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted June 21, 2001 Share Posted June 21, 2001 Heh, my oilpan with a SBC is below the darned crossmember! And NO, I do NOT like it either. FWIW - if you go EFI there are things that can be done to lower the height of the intake. It's possible to get a 351W w/EFI under the stock FOX bodied Mustang hood if you know what you're doing. Drop motor mounts are NOT the way to go in order to do that - you have to mill the intake halves... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 21, 2001 Share Posted June 21, 2001 Heh, yeah with the chevy swap, I don't think I've seen one that isn't below the cross member unless its a wide road racing pan and then its got exhaust issues or at least very close to it if not. And like Jim, I ain't happy about it either, but it wouldn't matter, if the pan was higher it'd take out the T56 bellhousing anyway on the bottom. Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 26, 2001 Share Posted July 26, 2001 Solution to the Ford 351W clearance problem. This requires hood work and you'll need to take that to a body shop unless your good at cutting. I'm thinking about a 351W FI, but for you carb guys out there that want a lot of power, call Mr. Gasket Co. and look into their Street Scoop II. It fits 4 barrel carbs but you'll have to ask if they carry it for your specific carb and check your neck diameter, I think they mostly deal with 5 1/8" diameter. Make sure you match up where you want the scoop to go through the hood so you don't wind up getting a bad cut at the body shop. I think it'd look good, your only real problem with the scoop is keeping parts vulchers from ripping it out of your hood and digging through for the carb. So this should apply to the people who don't use there Z as a daily driver or work car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scca Posted July 26, 2001 Share Posted July 26, 2001 i have my motor behind the x-member. eventually i will notch the leading edge of it out a couple inches as the front drain nut is literally 1/16" from it. so it may rub on torque shift.. amazimgly enough the stock oil filter FIT my car.. i built the steering to clear the headers and fully wanted/expected to run a cooler with braided lines (for looks mostly) but now that the stock filter fits it will likely stay that way for this year.. its sunny i want it on the road! as far as documentation, i have about 20 digital pics of mine so far. i hope tohave the car DONE today. should be able to post some pics tonite or tomorrow. 'almost' show car... its looking pretty nice in the engine bay anyway.. now next winter to take the motor back out and clean and paint it.. hmm maybe alum heads and .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted July 26, 2001 Share Posted July 26, 2001 Hrm, yes DO get a digital camera, you will NOT regret it. My latest was purchased off of E-bay and while there are some things I wish had been done differently it does most certainly take very nice pics. Best of all I don't think twice about popping of shots to document things for myself - it costs nothing. As for the 351W. To do this "right" and keep the EFI without a scoop you must do three things. 1st mill the lower intake half. I'm not sure how much but measure the thread depth on th ebolts and take it into account. Be aware of how much you need to lower the intake first (ahem). 2nd, mill the bottom of the upper half. You won't have nearly as much to work with there but take what you can get! 3rd and last - you will have to modify the throttle linkage some as it now hits the valve covers. A bit of grinding and it's done. On a FOX Ford this is enough to get you under the stock hoodline, just. Drop motor mounts on that setup put the engine's pan on the steering rack before the mounts hit the engine pad. Ask me how I found that one out... Given my choice prefer to not cut holes in sheetmetal. I know scoops can be done right and look good but often times they aren't. A cowl hood like I've got on the Z is an option and looks good but it's far from low buck and has it's own quirks. Heh, I've yet to test fit the hood with the aircleaner on but it looks like it'll fit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 I couldn't help but wade into the Ford vs Chevy discussion. I've got the only solution....I built one of each. The Chevy is not quite finished but I'll report back later. I'm having fun with both. Each has their own issues. The Ford is an EFI and T5 and the Chevy has a carb and auto tranny. I have to admit that the Chevy conversion was far easier. There is more documentation and components for the conversion available. The 5.0 litre conversion required a whole lot of custom fabrication. That project was hot and heavy into custom fabrication anyway, so in for a penny, in for a pound. Check out the home page for details. I'm way ahead of what's there, so I'm overdue for an update. I've been holding out for when I finally decide on a digital camera. Evan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 29, 2001 Share Posted July 29, 2001 I am doing a 351 cleveland 4V swap. The Cleveland has more power potential (with OEM heads)than any other production small block I know of. First the good points of the Cleveland: The deck height on a Cleveland is 9.2" The block has a cast-in timing chain cover (1 less gasket to leak) The stock crankshafts were used in the 70's pro-stockers and lived under 9,000 rpm blasts, The crank is made of nodular iron. The 4V heads are known to kill low-end power, but over 3,000 they kick-ass...making them perfect candidates for the light-weight (traction-limited)z. 351's have a quite-healthy aftermarket (it is little known that a company called parker has developed and is selling an intake that is superior to an edelbrock Victor JR) Cams, rods, and cranks are made for these engines..sanderson headers sells shorties, any piston you want is available. The cleveland (like other fords) have the distributor located in the front. This allows a ford-z owner to set-back the engine several inches further than a chevy or small mopar. On my C, the very front exhaust ports are in line with the back-edge of the shock-tower. Weight-distribution is very close to 50/50. PAW sells universal mounts that are a breeze to install in your z if you have a welder. Believe it or not, basic engine-build parts are comparable to the 350 in price...in fact, in my paw catalogue, the 351C is the 2nd cheapest engine to rebuild (the 350 is of course cheaper). Typical 351C's with 4v heads can easily make 450+ hp. Now for the drawbacks of the cleveland: Thin cylinders. You can't bore an American cleveland more than .030" in performance applications. The general concensus is that the C's max recommended RPM is 6500. After this, you risk ventilating a cylinder. Two methods I am employing in my z to help crutch the thin cylinders are halfway filled water-jackets (hardblok), and setscrews tapped halfway between the concrete and the deck surface. The screws directly contact the cylinders through the waterjackets, and in theory, will keep the cylinders from flexing. Poor oiling system. The main-journals starve for oil at high rpms. Oiling modifications are req'd for very high performance applications where 6,500 RPM is regularly attained. I am using oil-restrictors in the mains to help keep some of the oil in the journals. (you have to use a mechanical cam to do this) Main webbing is supposedly weak. If you are making 450 hp, and you are squeezing it with 200 hp worth of nitrous, you risk spliting the mains. Not a problem naturally aspirated though. The main caps and webbing is definately beefier on a cleveland than on a 289/302 though. To sum up, if you want a 450+ horsepower smallblock without having to buy aftermarket heads or use forced induction, then the Cleveland is the way to go. web page ford guys check this site out. It's got a seriously active techboard, lots of high-quality tech articles with good pics, It's my personal favorite car website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MegaShaft_2000 Posted October 29, 2001 Share Posted October 29, 2001 I can't say much about the Ford 351's, but for the Chevy 350 vs. Ford 302, I'd take the Chevy. I've known a few guys who have actually cracked the block on a 302 running 400+ HP. I guess that's the drawback of having a lighter weight block, it's weaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted October 29, 2001 Share Posted October 29, 2001 i must also say, i saw ads in a 5.0 mag( hey i was bored!) that sell long block 4.6 with 5speed for 2500, just notch the mounts again, and bolt em up, scarab baby... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 I'm looking at the 302 swap myself and I was wondering (apart from cost) why no one has tried making a dry sump motor, so that the oil pan can be as small as possable. Has anymone who knows what they are doing thought about it ? Mike 240z + a large collection of ford bits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 I have another question who is PAW? I'm building my list of suppliers and they sound like one I should check out. Thanks Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LoFlyingZ Posted November 2, 2001 Share Posted November 2, 2001 PAW (Performance Automotive Warehouse) Their website is www.pawinc.com it wasn't opening for me when I tried it though.(shrug) They have a rather large catalog of goodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zgeezer Posted November 26, 2001 Share Posted November 26, 2001 Ford vs Chevy. Always worth 4 or 5 hours and a case of beer. Today, a 351W has one major advantage over the CSB. It can be easily and economically stroked to 426/427 inches. A real chore with the Chevy. The Ford stroker accepts long rods without pushing the wrist pins into the rings. Check out the pricing for 426 ci Ford stroker in PAW. Been there, broke that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 3, 2001 Share Posted December 3, 2001 ok first off its mostily personal prefrance... but here go`s in morst places a chevy is cheaper to build and a lot more people have knoledge about it... fords on the other hand seam to have a little better quility but more expinsive up to you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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