240z out of timing?

[bowl of seeds]

Hey everyone, I recently installed a zx distributor with the e12-80 ignition module.. After confirming that I have spark I made sure I aligned the rotor to the #1 on the distributor cap. Still when i go to start the car it just keeps cranking but doesn't turn on, although if I spray starting fluid into the carve it almost starts but then stumbles and dies.. what could this be? Ive already checked to see if I'm getting fuel to the carbs ..the fuel pump is definitley working. What would be causing this? Any help is appreciated Im stuck as to what to do right about now :/

[Rome]

Try this, it helped me.

 

Take off the dist.cap set the rotor before the any of the spark plug wires and make that number one, then follow the firing order from there, you should get it to fire. and may have to make adjustment.

I know theres a good source on here, but i cant seem to find it. Goodluck.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Rome

[beermanpete]

It sounds like you have the timing 180 out. You might have had the #1 cylinder on valve overlap instead of the compression stroke.

[bowl of seeds]

Try this, it helped me.

 

Take off the dist.cap set the rotor before the any of the spark plug wires and make that number one, then follow the firing order from there, you should get it to fire. and may have to make adjustment.

I know theres a good source on here, but i cant seem to find it. Goodluck.

 

Ill try it and see what happens, on my distributor cap there's a plug labeled one so I assumed that to be for the #1 spark plug wire. Hopefully this makes a difference, I'll let you know what the result is. Much appreciated!

 

It sounds like you have the timing 180 out. You might have had the #1 cylinder on valve overlap instead of the compression stroke.

I suspected it to be atleast somewhat out of timing considering i swapped distributors to the later electronic model..How would I go about fixing this? I know I'm getting close to starting her up I can feel il I hope this isn't too much of a headache... Thanks for the reply!

 

-Frank

[beermanpete]

The procedure I use for "dead" timing is:

 

1) Remove #1 spark plug.

2) Remove distributor cap.

3) Turn engine by hand (clockwise, the normal direction) while holding a finger over the plug hole until you feel air pressure building. An assistant makes this easier.

4) Continue turning until the timing marks are lined up to TDC.

5) Look at rotor position. It should point forward, toward the radiator.

6) Insert #1 plug wire in distributor cap position that lines up with rotor tip.

7) Install cap.

8) Insert the other plug wires in the cap following the firing order (1-5-3-6-2-4) in an anti-clockwise direction.

9) Replace #1 spark plug.

10) Start engine.

11) Assuming the engine runs correctly, set timing.

 

The distributor is not supposed to allow being installed backwards (180 out). The drive tang is offset a little bit for this purpose. There have been reports of people installing them backwards despite this.

 

The rotor tip should point to about 8:30 when the engine is at TDC for the #1 cylinder. View looking down at the distributor from the driver's side of car.

 

The oil pump drive gear installation affects the distributor position. If the oil pump is installed wrong the rotor can point to any position around its rotation. Also, the point cam cam be installed backwards which will cause the rotor to be 180 out.

 

None of this will prevent the engine from running properly as long as you get the #1 plug wire positioned to match the rotor position AND you can set the timing without the vacuum advance servo hitting the engine block or other parts near it.

[bowl of seeds]

I managed to get this done, I set everything up right and when I go to start it there was ittle if any change, I did all that you say to do and tripple checked it. The car still doesn't start..maybe it doesn't have to do with timing?

[Rome]

Hmm, All you need is spark, air, and fuel. to make that motor crank. so double check all of those aspects.

 

When i had replaced my headgasket it took me about 4 hours time to get my timing.

[bowl of seeds]

Hmm, All you need is spark, air, and fuel. to make that motor crank. so double check all of those aspects.

 

When i had replaced my headgasket it took me about 4 hours time to get my timing.

 

Hmm well ill go through it again tomorrow, before you got your timing was your car was doing the same?

[Rome]

Ohhh yeah! my car was giving me probs, I know what your going through, haa

 

Set your car to top dead center and adjust the dist. to the picture. According to the link. You should get something.

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/65565-firing-order-for-l28et/

 

 

let me/us how it goes.

BTW, was your car running before you made the swap??

Edited May 4, 2012 by Rome

[beermanpete]

Hmmm... Either the new ignition module is not working correctly or you upset something else while switching the distributor. Check for vacuum hoses off and other possible vacuum leaks.

Edited May 4, 2012 by beermanpete

[beermanpete]

Here is a link to a page describing how to install the E12-80 in an early Z. Maybe it will help.

 

http://atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/distributor/index.html

[bowl of seeds]

Ohhh yeah! my car was giving me probs, I know what your going through, haa

 

Set your car to top dead center and adjust the dist. to the picture. According to the link. You should get something.

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/65565-firing-order-for-l28et/

 

 

let me/us how it goes.

BTW, was your car running before you made the swap??

Okay, lets see if I can progress today! That's something I forgot to mention.. the PO had the original distributor with the pertronix ignition installed along with A MSD 6a..I cant remember exactly why I removed it initially ..it was probably something stupid.. or perhaps plain ol' curiosity.. anyways when I went to reinstall everything I wired everything up wrong and fried the pertronix.. the car was running okay previous to this.. in the link they talk about a different firing order? Could this be right for my car?

 

Hmmm... Either the new ignition module is not working correctly or you upset something else while switching the distributor. Check for vacuum hoses off and other possible vacuum leaks

Ill go through with reinstalling again if I don't seem to be getting anywhere.. I replaced the vacuum hose from the distributor just yesterday and the others seem to be fine ill double check those just to be sure. Also I might just remove the distributor to clean the base plate to insure a good ground to the block.

 

Ill keep you two posted! Thanks for all the help so far

[bowl of seeds]

After countless times removing,adjusting...no avail.. I just cant seem to make the car fire up :/

Edited May 5, 2012 by bowl of seeds

[NewZed]

Have you confirmed that you're getting any spark at all? This is timing-independent, nothing to do with firing order, vacuum hoses or anything else, it will tell you if there the coil is charging and the module is working. Put a spark plug on the end of a plug wire from the cap, place the threaded portion on a good ground, crank the engine over and look for spark between the electrodes. That would be step #1. If you don't have that, then you can focus on figuring out what's wrong with the module or your wiring, before worrying about timing. If you do have it then you can worry about timing.

 

One possibility - I have on occasion, forgot to put the rotor back on to the shaft before putting the cap back on, after changing distributors. No rotor, no spark.

[bowl of seeds]

Have you confirmed that you're getting any spark at all? This is timing-independent, nothing to do with firing order, vacuum hoses or anything else, it will tell you if there the coil is charging and the module is working. Put a spark plug on the end of a plug wire from the cap, place the threaded portion on a good ground, crank the engine over and look for spark between the electrodes. That would be step #1. If you don't have that, then you can focus on figuring out what's wrong with the module or your wiring, before worrying about timing. If you do have it then you can worry about timing.

 

One possibility - I have on occasion, forgot to put the rotor back on to the shaft before putting the cap back on, after changing distributors. No rotor, no spark.

 

Yes, I seem do be getting spark, I wired everything correctly as far as I can tell even my tach is working? I'm guessing it does have something to do with the distributor though because when I had the pertronix installed it was working correctly even if the carbs weren't perfectly in sync the car would fire up.. any ideas?

[NewZed]

There's really not much else, with carbs. Strong spark at the right time, with fuel (assuming it was running well before). Recheck your timing and your firing order if you're sure that your spark is strong. Check your plugs, they may have fouled while you were trying to get things straightened out.

Edited May 5, 2012 by NewZed

[Rome]

Yes that firing order can be used for all l28's. so it says, ima look in my garage to see if i can find my note book with the firing order i used.

I remember reading up on it and there were two firing orders for the dist, but either way if you have it all alinged right or worng, it should kinda start or rev real high. Thats how you know your a few teeth off and need to make adjustments.

[bowl of seeds]

There's really not much else, with carbs. Strong spark at the right time, with fuel (assuming it was running well before). Recheck your timing and your firing order if you're sure that your spark is strong. Check your plugs, they may have fouled while you were trying to get things straightened out.

 

Ill recheck it tomorrow morning hopefully i come up with something..how would I know if they fouled? Can I remove them and clean em up? I'm going to order some new ngk spark plug wires see if it helps give a better spark.

 

Yes that firing order can be used for all l28's. so it says, ima look in my garage to see if i can find my note book with the firing order i used.

I remember reading up on it and there were two firing orders for the dist, but either way if you have it all alinged right or worng, it should kinda start or rev real high. Thats how you know your a few teeth off and need to make adjustments.

 

Okay that'd be great! To make adjustments I'd have to remove the oil pump?

[beermanpete]

What does the spark look like? Is it blue or yellow? Can you hear it? How long of a gap will it jump?

 

There is only one firing order. 1-5-3-6-2-4.

 

If the oil pump drive gear has been installed incorrectly it will change where the rotor points when the engine is at TDC on the compression stroke for the #1 cylinder. Depending on how for off the oil pump gear is you may need to rotate the distributor nearly to the end of its range of adjustment to set the timing and/or move the plug wires to different positions in the cap.

 

The distributor rotates anti-clockwise when looking at it from the top. Place the plug wire for the #1 cyl. in the postion on the cap that is the closest to the rotor tip when at TDC. Install the remaining plug wires according to the firing order in a anti-clockwise direction.

 

In case you are not aware of it, there are 2 timing adjustment clamp screws. The one easily reached from the top to set the timing has a limited range of travel. The other is on the bottom of the distributor housing. I tend to think of them as coarse and fine adjustments.

 

Just to be clarify a point that has been misunderstood by others, the cyliders are numbered 1 through 6 starting at the front and moving toward the rear of the car.

 

Yes, the rotor is supposed to point to about 9 o'clock when the engine is at TDC. However, it will run correctly if it dose not as long as you accomodate the difference as described above. Don't bother taking the oil pump out to correct it in an attempt to get the car to run. It is not necessary. You can get the car to run regardless of the oil pump drive gear timing. Once you get the car running and if the oil pump happens to be timed wrong and it bothers you then go ahead an correct it.

 

Edit: Removed erroneous comment about distributor adjusting screws.

Edited May 7, 2012 by beermanpete

[Rome]

Ill recheck it tomorrow morning hopefully i come up with something..how would I know if they fouled? Can I remove them and clean em up? I'm going to order some new ngk spark plug wires see if it helps give a better spark.

 

 

 

Okay that'd be great! To make adjustments I'd have to remove the oil pump?

 

 

Yes, you have to remove it everytime. its a pain but it works.

But if it was just a straight swap it should have just started, but since it doesnt.

Try removing the oil pump and adjusting it. til you have the correct order.