theAntihero Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) So this summer im planning on doing a 240z with a v8 and after reading the JTR manual i was going for a SBC but i was offered a ford 400 out of a lincoln continetal for free. Do you guys think it would be worth while? I cant remember much off the top of my head about the 400 except it had some in common with the cleveland motors but wasnt highly regarded at all. The engine is in good shape and i was sort of thinking that money i would spend on a SBC could be put towards other things. Thoughts? Comments? Edited June 11, 2012 by theAntihero Edited title to help clarify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi303 Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Free is always good. The 400 is a tall deck 351, I think the bellhousing pattern is also different for truck transmissions as well, not car transmissions. It will be heavier than a 351 cleveland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theAntihero Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 Free is always good. The 400 is a tall deck 351, I think the bellhousing pattern is also different for truck transmissions as well, not car transmissions. It will be heavier than a 351 cleveland. Thats more or less what im thinking. Im not looking for gobs of horsepower or 0-60 in 2 seconds or anything so i think the 400 will work for me. I imagine that they are similiar in weight to the SBC but ill have to dig up more info, the 400 is a hard engine to find out anything on really. Plus the grand or so that i was planning on for the engine can go into say a LSD or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMoore56 Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 The 400M has the 429/460 bell housing pattern. The heads are the same as the 2 barrel Cleveland. I'm using them on my 351W in my 77 280z. Also I'm in the process of changing the header flanges on my long tube Fox body headers. I've done some major changes to make them fit. Its been a pain but I think it will be worth it in the long run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi303 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 The 400 will probably be better power and torque than the 302 cleveland I have in the shed back home in NZ. You should be able to get a 5 spd from a ford E van or 2wd truck with the 460 in a wreckers yard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erehemantresni Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 The 400M has the 429/460 bell housing pattern. The heads are the same as the 2 barrel Cleveland. I'm using them on my 351W in my 77 280z. Also I'm in the process of changing the header flanges on my long tube Fox body headers. I've done some major changes to make them fit. Its been a pain but I think it will be worth it in the long run What foxbody longtube headers are you using? How is your engine mounted? I am trying to find a set of longtubes for my 302. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMoore56 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 They are just a cheap set that I picked off flea bay awhile back. I've had them 4 or 5 years now and I don't remember what brand. I got rid of the box not long after I got them. They were for the 5.0 in the fox body Mustang. I had to modify the number 4 tube for my steering shaft. I also had to get a oil filter relocation kit. I had to rebuild my frame rails, since I could take a screw driver and poke holes in them with it. I used 1 1/2 X 3 rectangle tubing for it and gained a little over an inch clearance between the frame rails doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMoore56 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 My linkI found a set of headers on ebay, that look like the set that I used. This is the item number on ebay (370596866637). The descripion for them is ( NEW HEADERS LONGTUBE 79 93 MUSTANG FOX BODY CAPRI 5.0 ). You can copy and paste either one, and go to ebay and it will take you to the item. I will try to add a link, but I'm not sure if will work. Thats why I put item number and descripion on here. It went up top, so I don't know if it will work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowoctupus Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 FYI, it's a 302W (Windsor, Ontario, not Cleveland). Here are the basic SBF/BBF family classifications: 1962–2000 Windsor V8—small-block (221/255/260/289/289HP/302/351W/Boss 302) 1968–1997 385 V8—big-block (370/429/Boss 429/460/514) 1970–1982 335/Cleveland V8— small-block (351 Cleveland/400/351M/Boss 351 I've heard the 400M engines are boat anchors, as they're truck engines meant for torque not high revs, so just my 2¢, but I'd probably do the 302. I did a 4.6 swap becaust nobody else does them, and it was a steep learning curve. TONS of people here have done the 302/5.0 swaps. If you quick n easy, go 302, if you want to be different and be able to pull out bulldozers stuck in the mud, then... Drop er in!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi303 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Nuh Uh... Just like Japan has JDM motors that didn't make it to the states, Ford Australia did things with ford motors that didn't get done by Ford USA. Same as the 4.0L straight 6 in the Falcon used as a high perfomance car engine. Stateside only had them as truck engines. You should try out a turbo 4.0 falcon if you ever visit Aussie, they are nicer performing than the V8s. The australians made Clevelands for years after the Cleveland was dropped from the lineup stateside, and with a shorter stroke crank in the same block made a 302C variant as the entry level V8 alongside the larger 351C. FYI, it's a 302W (Windsor, Ontario, not Cleveland). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMoore56 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 The 302C had a 3 inch stroke and used a 6.025 inch long rod. I odered a set from AusFordParts out of Battle Ground,Washington just north of Portand, Oregon. I'm going to use those 302C rods and the set of Boss 302 TRW pistons, along with my Scat 3.85 stroke crank in my 351W. Standard bore to get 387.4 cubic iches. Cleveland heads and the Edelbrock EBOSS 351 intake. I've got 2 barrel and 4 barrel heads to use. I'm doing it to be different and I've got the parts on hand, except the rods have been ordered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowoctupus Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 D'oh! You crazy Aussies! I should have known, that's probably what Mad Max had tucked under the bonnet of his XB. I would love to get a hold of one of those inline 4.0's for my '65 Mustang. I thought they came in our Explorers and Rangers...as it turns out they're a completely different V6.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theAntihero Posted June 15, 2012 Author Share Posted June 15, 2012 FYI, it's a 302W (Windsor, Ontario, not Cleveland). Here are the basic SBF/BBF family classifications: 1962–2000 Windsor V8—small-block (221/255/260/289/289HP/302/351W/Boss 302) 1968–1997 385 V8—big-block (370/429/Boss 429/460/514) 1970–1982 335/Cleveland V8— small-block (351 Cleveland/400/351M/Boss 351 I've heard the 400M engines are boat anchors, as they're truck engines meant for torque not high revs, so just my 2¢, but I'd probably do the 302. I did a 4.6 swap becaust nobody else does them, and it was a steep learning curve. TONS of people here have done the 302/5.0 swaps. If you quick n easy, go 302, if you want to be different and be able to pull out bulldozers stuck in the mud, then... Drop er in!!!! I was originally going with a SBC because of how well its all planned out thru JTR's manual but since this motor is free i thought it might be worth a gander. This particular 400 is out of a Lincoln Continental so i imagine its a little different than the truck version but frankly this engine is sort of hard to find out much info on. As this is more for cruising higher torque doesnt necessarily bug me but i still want it to be a car and not to grenade my r180. Thanks for all the responses so far, hopefully someone has done this swap and can chime in as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi303 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 I wish this was cheaper... but I think it has given me an idea for making an EFI manifold from a SCUBA ali pony bottle or Spare Air bottle! Add MS and turbos... http://www.clarkosperformance.com/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=35 Intakes for the 400 would be limited, the taller deck height would mean the head faces are further apart and the valley is wider, so 351C manifolds would not work on a 400. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMoore56 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 ( www.pricemotorsport.com ) Makes intake adapters for the 400M to put 351C or even 351W intakes. I saw the intake adapters and a 351W intake on ebay earlier this week for the 400M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theAntihero Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 Hmm, the plot thickens. I was offered a 5r55e out of a 96 explorer for basically free. Anyone think it can hold up to a 400's power? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowoctupus Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Depends on where your weakest link is. I left my weakest link at tires, I'm hoping running high pressure will let them break loose before U joints etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMoore56 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 From looking around on the net, it looks to me that the problem with using the 5r55e, would be getting it to mate up with the 400M. The 400M uses the 429/460 bell housing bolt pattern, and the 5r55e uses the 3.0L/4.0L bolt pattern. The transmission is modeled after the C3 transmission, and the bell housing comes off like the C4. I can't remember if they put a C4 behind the 400M or not. I only saw the 400M with the C6 tranny, but that was in trucks. I know that Ford put them in T-birds up to 1979, but I don't know what tranny was behind it. As for handling the power of the 400M, I found on Wikipedia where they state that the (4R44E rated for 440ft/lb torque )and the ( electronic shifting. 4R55E is the same but heavier duty and rated for 550 ft·lbs. )(The 5R55E, though mechanically similar to the 4-speed 4R55E). If it were me, I would check to see if a C4 bell housing would fit the C3 tranny, and if Ford put a C4 behind the 400M. I'm sorry that I got carried away again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theAntihero Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 From looking around on the net, it looks to me that the problem with using the 5r55e, would be getting it to mate up with the 400M. The 400M uses the 429/460 bell housing bolt pattern, and the 5r55e uses the 3.0L/4.0L bolt pattern. The transmission is modeled after the C3 transmission, and the bell housing comes off like the C4. I can't remember if they put a C4 behind the 400M or not. I only saw the 400M with the C6 tranny, but that was in trucks. I know that Ford put them in T-birds up to 1979, but I don't know what tranny was behind it. As for handling the power of the 400M, I found on Wikipedia where they state that the (4R44E rated for 440ft/lb torque )and the ( electronic shifting. 4R55E is the same but heavier duty and rated for 550 ft·lbs. )(The 5R55E, though mechanically similar to the 4-speed 4R55E). If it were me, I would check to see if a C4 bell housing would fit the C3 tranny, and if Ford put a C4 behind the 400M. I'm sorry that I got carried away again. Not a problem, thanks for the info. I found the wiki article as well but ive been reading taht when people swap in 302's and 351's into rangers and explorers they swap out the 5r55e as they mostly say it wont handle the power, but no one seems to have actually tried it. The 400 wont even touch 440ftlbs in the configuration its in and i dont really plan on doing much more than warm it up a bit. Still free is free, both these come from my parents who have some old cars on their land. Sadly its mostly big old ford trucks and while i like the 360/390 and np435 i dont see a 240z working well with either but the 400m and maybe 5r55e? That might be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi303 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Hmm... I'd love a free 390 and trans... But yeah, Not for the 280ZX, for an old falcon ute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.