cameraobsess Posted October 12, 2002 Share Posted October 12, 2002 i am trying to decide on what i want to use in my v-8 z. i am going to list some chevy options that i am keeping open along with my main ford ones. ok here they are a ford 289 or a 302, chevy 350 or 400 (like the ones in the old caprices basicly 350s bored outto 400) anyways im not sure what way im going to go but my main idea right now is to start with a 302 and eventually add twin turbos to it let me know what you think about these ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dp351zcar Posted October 12, 2002 Share Posted October 12, 2002 A 302 ford is a good engine and can make some good power (400+) with the usual stuff. The main advantage of the 302 is it's light weight, if I was doing it again I would choose this motor. It's not all that hard to mount a 302 it just is that there is not a standard way to mount it. It can be mounted many ways starting from with motor mount plates just like the jtr setup to solid motor plates like a sprint car. The advantage of chevy is everyone has one, nuf said. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 12, 2002 Share Posted October 12, 2002 The 400 SBC isn't just a "bored out 350"; it's an entirely different block having siamesed cylinders and larger main bearing bores. Not only does it have a larger bore than a 350, it has a longer stroke crank that is externally balanced. You don't list the 351W. Equipped with aluminum heads, intake and water pump, a 351W is nearly the same weight as a stock 302. The advantage of the 351W vs. the Chevy 350 (besides lighter) is that it can be stroked to well over 400cid without any cam interference problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameraobsess Posted October 12, 2002 Author Share Posted October 12, 2002 thats good to know that about the 400. i dont know much about it and every thing i know about it comes from my friends 1972 caprice, and some one had explained it to me as a 350 bored out (actually that was the one of two years that chevy made a 400 that started as a 400 small block) anyways the reason i didnt talk about the 351 is because if i go with the 302 its because im going to be trying for a good weight and have all the good aluminum heads on it. if i go for a chevy 350 its because i decide to go for power and the easyness of doing it. right now i think i am leaning tords the 302 though. thanks for the opinions though, keep them coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 13, 2002 Share Posted October 13, 2002 Opinions huh? Ok,here's one. If you are considering turbos, forget aluminum heads, at least on a street motor. Aluminum is far more temperature sensitive and releases heat more quickly than cast iron; two things that work against a turbocharger setup. Exhaust temperature equals velocity in a turbo motor; the quicker the exhaust cools, the more lag is created. Cast iron keeps valuable heat in the chambers and ports. Another point is that most aluminum heads available today are ported, not for maximum velocity, but maximum volume. You want velocity in a turbo engine for quicker response. Too much volume combined with typical mild turbo cam timing creates lag and more of a chance for mixture separation. Last, but not least, is the fact that the SBF uses only 4 bolts around each cylinder which might be a problem if higher boost levels are attempted considering the expansion difference between the aluminum heads and cast iron block. As I said, just an opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameraobsess Posted October 13, 2002 Author Share Posted October 13, 2002 thanks for the info. i do actually have some idea how a turbo works though. and well it might not always seam like it i do a little bit of home work before i talk about some things on here. i think i said that i was thinking about going with a 302 with aluminum heads and then eventually adding twin turbos. what i ment by that is that i will probably keep it just a plain 302 for some time and then spend some time makeing changes to the entire set up. anyways i didnt think about the volume issue on the heads though so thanks for pointing it out. thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 I just rode in a Cobra kit car a week or so ago with a 351 stroked to 396 CID, and 3:73 rear gears. This was half the reason I have decided I have to have a light V8 Z car in my future. That thing was SCARY fast! He floored it, and I was sliding up the seat! ,,,SZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameraobsess Posted October 14, 2002 Author Share Posted October 14, 2002 i think i have made up my mind about what and how im going to do this. i have desided to go with a 302 and just try and stick it about an inch away from the fire wall and nice and low too. i think i will probably go with a t5 for my trany and im probably going to put a four barel carb on it. i still dont know exactly how im going to mount this but i have seen about 5 diffrent ways on this site. who here has done this type of a swap? i want to pick their brains a bit and come up with my plan based on all the input. the main things that i need to work out and i hear are hard to fit in are the headers, and the oil filter. i have seen a cople diffrent brake upgrades for the v-8 conversion like the 300zx one what do people on here consider the best one for your money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 Originally posted by Quantrex:Opinions huh? Ok,here's one. If you are considering turbos, forget aluminum heads, at least on a street motor. Aluminum is far more temperature sensitive and releases heat more quickly than cast iron; two things that work against a turbocharger setup. Exhaust temperature equals velocity in a turbo motor; the quicker the exhaust cools, the more lag is created. Cast iron keeps valuable heat in the chambers and ports. Another point is that most aluminum heads available today are ported, not for maximum velocity, but maximum volume. You want velocity in a turbo engine for quicker response. Too much volume combined with typical mild turbo cam timing creates lag and more of a chance for mixture separation. Last, but not least, is the fact that the SBF uses only 4 bolts around each cylinder which might be a problem if higher boost levels are attempted considering the expansion difference between the aluminum heads and cast iron block. As I said, just an opinion. I'm not sure I buy the cast iron thing being better for a turbo application. Cast iron is a much poorer heat conductor, and will retain more heat in the head - this is a BAD thing. Hot spots will create more opportunity for detonation. I can't relate to the comment about an aluminum head causing more lag than an iron head??? Doesn't make sense to me how the exhaust temperature is going to be radically different given the same air/fuel ratio - you are correct a cooler exhaust will not drive a turbine as effectively, but it seems to me the exhaust temps will be similar, but the aluminum head will cool the chamber better for the next stroke. Of course the L series motors all had aluminum heads, so I can't compare with my experience, but there seems to be no real issues with the aluminum head on an L series, with just four bolts around the cylinder and the different heat expansion coefficients... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluex_v1 Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 cameraobsess, here's my still developing plan, although using a roller block and efi... -I am going to try to make this work: Mount will be a hybrid of Alsil's crossmember and my own little support/strut tower integration thing, positioning engine so the front of the oil pan is just behind the front crossmember (I know Blueovalz's is this way), off-set the block to the passenger side about 1/2 inch, and as low to the road as I am comfortable with. This should put it right at the firewall, and I think with an efi intake that means cutting the hood latch off (I want a fiber cowl hood anyway ). Using a remote oil filter kit from summit etc, flowtech block huggers and a mustang power steering rack, I *think* from eyeballing pics, that everything would fit with the engine offset to the side. Then finish off with a griffen alum radiator and taurus fan. I'll be happy to let you try the fit first though I think I'm going to get stupid and take out a small loan to buy my donor mustang here any day now though. Here's a photoshoping of what I'm thinking. The nice thing is, I can have all the frame rail and strut tower stuff made and put in before the swap even starts, and have the crossmember part of it built and bolted onto the engine while its on the hoist, drop it in, move in/out/up/down, adjust the pitch for best driveline angle, and when everything looks good, weld the crossmember to the frame rail supports... Anyway, something to think about.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameraobsess Posted October 15, 2002 Author Share Posted October 15, 2002 that looks like a nice set up. i have seen that cross member on here before and its one of my first choices. i am also looking at Terry Oxandale's 240z also although i think i like the one you showed a little better than his way. but after everything is considerd they are very close in the fact that both run into the same problems. but i think with a remote oil filter you gain enough space to get rid of most of the problems. anyways keep me posted on your swap. i think at earlyest i would be starting late december on mine but because of school i think that will mainly be buying and designing. the real work will probably begin the first day of summer for me. also i was wondering if there is anyone close to napa or san jose who has done a ford swap that might be willing to help or at least let me look up close at theirs? thanks again and about the iron heads on the other poast i have heard it said both ways before so i am undecided about whats better with a turbo but i do think theres a good argument for both sides and its going to be personal opinion in the end kind of like weather to go with a ford or chevy swap. their are good things about both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameraobsess Posted October 15, 2002 Author Share Posted October 15, 2002 o i did have one more question about that engine mount. how are you planing on reduceing vibrations through the frame. i really want to make this a nice smooth powerfull ride and want to avoid vidrateing the frame and myself to much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluex_v1 Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 Well, Alsil used "old-style (62-70) small block motor mounts" Which, look to me like they have a rubber chunk sandwiched in the middle (if they do happen to be solid metal, surely someone must make an aftermarket replacement with dampers). These mounts bolt through the longitudinal peices of tubing on the crossmember. Alsil also has a note on part of his page to email him if interested in the crossmember...perhaps he is planning to sell them. However, even with Terry's setup, I'm sure you could figure out a way to put some bushings or dampers at the point that the engine plates attach to the front crossmember and rear frame rails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 I'm the noob here, so I'll ask - has anyone tried a mod motor? I'm considering this as my next project (have an SR20DET underway in an S13 240SX, but always liked the 240Z), and loved the DOHC 4.6li engines in the Cobras - that sound is wonderful. They're easy to make power out of, and not too horribly hard to come across. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AlsoRanFPrepared Posted October 16, 2002 Share Posted October 16, 2002 Mod motors are cool but the DOHC is HUGE! You would be better off trying to stuff a 460 in there instead. The 460 is smaller than the DOHC in every dimension except length. The aluminum cobra/explorer block with the SOHC heads may be a good way to go though. I Autocrossed a '99 cobra for 3 years and I question the reliability of the DOHC motors. tick tick tick went the heads and Ford said it was A-OK. -food for thought. -Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 85,000 miles on my 4.6 Triton powered F-150, and not one single engine related problem. The only time it failed to start and run, is when the battery died. They're plenty reliable, but yes they are a large engine when fully assembled. I drive the holy crap out of my truck, which has true duals, Superchip, and a bored out MAF, and I've never broken anything. Just thought I'd chime in to defend the modulars. They are fine engines IMO ,,,,SZ I have no experience with the DOHC's though. How about a 5.4 Lighting engine? 380 supercharged HP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 oops, double post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameraobsess Posted October 17, 2002 Author Share Posted October 17, 2002 all those engines are nice but i was just reading this in a post over in the chevy forum "i also have a 500CI cadillac EFI motor with 70,000 on it. Thinking bout being unique with this car seeing how it is my Toy. any response would be great." now that would be one fast ride. im still going with a 302 though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 About ten years ago I was walking through the Pick A Part, and ran across a 67 Firebird with a big block caddy engine in it. There was a HUGE piece of Steel channel welded onto brackets in the trunk. Bet that was one scary ride ,,,SZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Cast iron is a poorer conductor of heat than aluminum....exactly. When I built my Buick V6 (years ago) I polished the chambers, exhaust ports and piston tops so they'd have even less surface area and absorb even less heat. If I'd had the finances, I would have ceramic-coated the piston crowns to limit heat transfer there as well. Since only a certain amount of combustion heat is created, the less heat that is transfered into the engine, the more stays in the combustion gases; ie. greater force is placed against the piston crown and out the exhaust port. Retaining exhaust heat is the reason for wrapping the exhaust on turbo motors, so why use a set of heads that steal 10-15% (maybe more) of that heat away to start with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.