Is this worth it? 1977 260z (possible 2+2?)

[Jakk24a]

Hi guys,

 

My first posting in a while, been busy for quite a few months since registering last year thanks to University work! I am here today to request some wisdom from those wiser than I!

 

Since first seeing the Z I was entranced (as I'm sure everyone could gather from my previous conversations) and ever since have been trawling classifieds and various classics and other sites looking for one cheap enough to snap up (being in Uni I can only afford like a grand to actually buy the base car with - especially if I want to have a little money left to at least begin work on it with).

 

Recently, I managed to find one and it's actually really close to me, to be more specific, it's even closer to where I attend Uni at! The listing claims it to be a 1977 260 but in the description goes on to mention it's a 2+2 so clearly they aren't too sure or knowledgeable about Z's. Also if I recall, I thought the 260 was only built in '74-'75?

 

They've listed it for £1,495 which is somewhat cheaper than the tiny handful other Z's I've found in the UK - probably because those are restored tbh. However, it does have some extensive rust. Supposedly it's been in storage for a long time but has started so that's good but if anyone could pass opinion on the bodywork state and base off that a roundabout guesstimate on maybe what kind of average welding costs I could be looking at I would be HUGELY thankful. I would dearly like to do a full 'frame-up' restoration to an original state rather than alternative engines etc. except a few mods (like LED lights maybe?) which would be cheaper than buying a different engine or block, you get the idea, but first really, I need to know rough prices for welding so I can convince my dear father who's a stickler for rust.

 

Here's the listing description and photos:

 

 

Datsun 260z 2+2

39,900 miles

Here we have a Datsun 260z that has been in storage for many years, We have had the engine running with a good battery and fuel supplied from a can, The straight 6 engine has not reached 40,000 miles and sounds lovely and is a manual, the clutch pedal is hard and we have not touched the brake pedal 

Inside is very complete and original 

Alloy wheels x5

As with all these 70`s Datsun`s it is the body work that requires attention, The bonnet is only placed on, the rear wings require work as do the doors, This car does require welding but when restored they are making strong money and this example benefits from being a low mileage example

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kcwnxyra4b5172o/eLczmcN_aA

 

I appreciate any help and advice given so thanks in advance! :3

 

[seattlejester]

I believe on your side of the pond, the 260Z carried all the way till the 280zx, thus a 2+2 260z is possible, someone who is familiar with that may have to chime in. 

 

The car was resprayed at some point (Blue engine bay), and seeing how much rust is poking through the paint, probably poorly. Given what I know of the UK, most cars will tend to be quite rusty and this seems to be no exception, your father is a very smart man. The rust near the fuel filler cap points towards quite a bit of corrosion probably present. The hood looks fairly gone and one of the headlights seems to need repair.

 

Interior looks to be in good shape and all there, that alone is worth a bit, but at the same time, if you look at the door sills, you can spot rust on either side indicating probably a fair amount of rust in the rockers and looking near the pedals you can spot some rust, indicating a leak of some kind is present, most likely this leak will have seeped and rusted the floors.

 

In my opinion, the 2+2 is not that great a starting point. The extra length ruins the iconic rear quarter glass. Don't get me wrong, there are a few which have been executed very well, but in general I think a 2+2 is going to be harder to pull off than a coupe. 

 

Conclusion, pass on it. If you are in Uni, you probably won't have much money to spend to fix the car up, while once again there are quite a few people, (a lot on this board), that have pulled off a very cool project car on a students budget, you will see some builds that are painfully ruined and on the verge of questionable due to a lack of funds. And given how strict an MOT inspection is, this car will probably need quite a bit of work to be kept on the road (lots of welding, panel beating = money). Unless you are going somewhere where you know there won't be anything to do, or anyone to socialize with, a project car can be pretty bad. Save up, and find a better starting point that you won't have to invest all your time and energy into. 

 

Personal example, I spent the last two year of my Uni working on my car, never went out on weekends, and always doing research and work. Yea, I have a pretty fun car now, but my grades suffered, and I grew apart with a lot of people. On the other hand, I had a friend go to school in the middle of no where, other than classes he literally had nothing to do, he probably could have used a distraction. 

 

 

Edit: sorry I got on my high horse before answering your questions.

 

Repair-Reason-Difficulty-Estimated costs

 

Floors

Based off of picture of the interior pedals, water seeped in at some point.

All sound proofing will have to be removed as well as interior-about 10 hours in labor if replacing with flat floors.

~800$

 

Hood

This piece is gone replace it

 

Rear wing

Based off of picture of the rear quarter, and color change.

A new panel will have to be sourced and welded in meticulously slowly to prevent warping, lead soldering will have to be used to limit the use of bondo which in your climate would most likely trap water and rust very quickly.

If you can source a panel about 4 hours in labor for removing and installing new panel, lead soldering and paint will be much more.

~400$

 

Rear bumper

Based off picture of the rear quarter, looks either really dirty or some deep inset rust-as long as the main supports aren't rusted it is a pretty easy replacement with the correctly sourced patch panel.

4 hours in labor for removing prepping and installing new panel, lead soldering and paint will be much more

~400$

 

Firewall

Looks to be surface rust, may need just a quick sanding and some rust inhibitor

You get lucky on this one because it is vertical, unfortunately the side where the battery rests may be rusty, pretty easy to replace with a flat piece of sheet about 4 hours.

~400$

 

Frame Rail

These tend to be rusted out, if you decide to cap them the repair isn't too bad about 4 hours a side, if you decide to remove the rust this can cost a great deal depending on the level of restoration, which will need a jig to hold the car in shape

~800$ to 3000$ (full strip, custom jig, front to back, etc)

 

These are super ball park estimates, a friend of mine was quoted 2000$ for just floors, and another was quoted a few snapples ice teas for a replacement patch panel. You can see how each section quickly adds up. Without a friend who is a welder/panel beater you are going to get into trouble real quick.

 

And pictures really don't do a car justice, if you are at all in any way serious, go take a look at the car. Look at how bad the panels are and decide for your self.

 

Sorry for the long post.

Edited April 19, 2013 by seattlejester

[tecreatta]

Yeah Mate thats a 260z 2+2. I have a warm place in my heart for them but 1500 quid seems a bit much for whats there. I have a dutch 1978 260z 2+2 with the same wing. I paid 1500 USD around 1000 quid and my car had already been proffesionally restored before making it to my side of the pond with it's previos owner. 10 years later it comes into my posession in need of a few patches but still a solid car. I say pass due to the condition of the car not the fact that it's a 2+2. As seattlejester said these cars kinda take from your social life. 3 Zs, and a z28 later and I spend most of my weekends on my cars rather then hanging out with friends and I'm entering my last year of university. Thankfully my Girlfriend is understanding.

[Jakk24a]

Hi guys,

 

I'm emailing the garage today to get a look-in on Wednesday afternoon (since a friend is going to pick me up - we'll both be at a new Uni campus, him for work and me from being shown around with others the new area, so we'll go to the garage afterwards - just after midday) and I'll grab a couple of photos if I can with his phone.

 

Quick question: it did pass over my head that if they conceded it really does have far too much body rust to get the asking price would you say £500 would still be too much for the car as-is based on what can be seen from the photos?

 

It did cross my mind I mind get antsy if they decide to chop it and I can't say yes or no because I'm not entirely sure if £500 would still be too much.

 

BTW: @tecreatta, not having much of a social life isn't a worry for me! I don't really have one anyway since I don't tend to drink, go out drinking with friends or have a girlfriend (and I don't intend on getting one for a mighty long time). I just wanted an awesome project that I could learn a ton from doing and also have a car that I actually want to drive at the end.

[seattlejester]

I wouldn't bank on them going down much, the seller is right, their aren't many Z cars in the UK (for good reason) and they are a rarity over there.

 

I'm going to say don't let your heart get in front of your head on this one. 500 pounds is roughly what 800$, that is going to be pittance compared to what you may/will be investing in repairs. And if it was your car, and you take an offer of 500 pounds, doesn't that mean you got the better end of the deal? How bad would the car really be?

 

It seems like you have been waiting for a while, what is a couple more months, a few more years? You will have more money to spend and more knowledge.

 

But then again, it really is your money and your choice, I know when I saw my car in person, I wrote an IOU to get it into my hands.

 

If you really want to get the car:

do point out the missing trim pieces.

do point out the rust in all the locations mentioned.

do take a look under the car for any rusted metal.

do not point out how much of a classic it will be.

do take cash.

 

But be very prepared to walk away, if you don't have that in your head you will be game to whatever the seller wants:

do walk away if the rockers and frame rails are compromised (possibility of warped body)

do walk away if the paint is bubbling all over the car (a lot more rust is hiding)

do walk away if you don't have the prospect of a couple of grand to spend in repairs (I'd rather delay a Z enthusiast then loose one to debt)

 

Good luck.

Edited April 22, 2013 by seattlejester

[Jakk24a]

Thanks seattlejester, that's some mighty fine advice you have there.

 

On account of everyone's advice and funds I decided to send the email like I mentioned and will see it hopefully on Wednesday afternoon to check it out. I won't be buying it, haven't yet solidified a reliable (or even semi-reliable) source of income quite yet and with getting a new phone yesterday (my first new phone, nearly new, in over 5 years!), a fancy dress costume for a friends party and some other items I don't quite feel like spending anymore for a while.

 

What I will do on Wed afternoon is take stock of the car and contribute to the ZClub.net forums with more details and hopefully photos of the car's condition so that someone who isn't just dedicated but who has money to be able to do it justice, can buy the car with the benefit of more information than the advert contains.

 

Still, thanks for the advice guys. It was extremely helpful in making me realise the willpower I used in the past on waiting for items I desperately wanted. Hopefully soon enough, I'll get the final driving test done, crappy car bought and amass a large fund with which to buy a better Z (but still one that needs working on - after all, what's the fun in a car that needs nothing doing?).

 

Thanks,

Chris

 

P.S. I mentioned giving the details to the ZClub.net forums on account of the fact the car is in the UK so please don't think it's because I'm trying to be nasty - if anyone here does want the details when I post saying I've been, I will gladly send them via a PM.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Jakk24a