Sanchez Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 I have just been toying with the idea of Supercharging the L28e, but the info I have found on it is mediocre at best and most of the topics on it turn into a "Turbo is better" thread. I am well aware that turbocharging is more efficient and probably cheaper. I am looking for info about theoretical setups that arent ubercostly or difficult. I was thinking along the lines of an Eaton m90, running it on the ZX heads with flattops or maybe some larger diameter dished pistons, mounting locations, using it with stock manifold, good ECU and injector choice, would you need the turbo dizzy or not, turning the SC on with a switch or at a certain throttle position. I'm finding all the info I can on this and would like input from other members. It would be nice to have a thread dedicated to Supercharging that did not die out after 2-3 posts with no info other than "get a turbo." The website is called Hybridz not Turboz so it's cool to see people experiment so we know what does and does not work. So lets get this threaded flooded with so much info that SC's become slightly more common among Z's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 I guess you couldn't scroll down a few threads in this subforum? I have my own personal supercharging build here, and within that thread there are links and photos of at least three other builds. It is not popular, because it does require a relatively large amount of fabrication, compared to a turbo build, and you are limited by heat as to the amount of power you can extract reliably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanchez Posted April 22, 2013 Author Share Posted April 22, 2013 Xnke: I have read your thread, in fact all of the posts as well abnd I am mighty impressed by your build. It is reletively straight forward and uses an Eaton like I was hoping to see used. But yours is the only one and the write up is great for those who are very knowledgeable and want high boost. I see superchargers as "passing agents," something to give you that nice little umph when you want to really drive it hard or make your way around a sunday driver or school a punk who thinks their obnoxiously loud Toyota camry with a digustinhly large muffler is the hottest thing on the road. I was looking at an intercooled SC14 as a decent option for using because it can be switched and offer a small amount of boost for a good 30% increase in power when needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 (edited) The SC14 is a very well documented swap for the L-series. You're looking at the wrong L-engine though, and the wrong continent, if you want information on them... Hint: Get a 280ZX aircon bracket...You'll want it when you go to mount up the SC14. Ditch that clutched pulley...it's worthless in this application...won't be able to keep from slipping when you engage it at any kind of speed. It's good for small-displacement, low-boost engines, but if you're wanting to drive it hard enough to boost the L28, you need more from it than the little clutch can handle. Also, keep in mind the SC14 uses two-lobe, straight rotors, made of thermoplastic, that do warp and the bearings are not easily replacable, and the super is not rebuildable if the rotor pack is warped. If you are dead set on the clutched-pulley idea, look for a Mercedes C230 Kompressor's M62. Small case, no snout, clutched 3.4" pulley. If you want a higher boost limit than about 10lbs, then look to the T-bird supercoupe M90. Cheap, remote-mount intercooling is trivial, has enough capacity to boost the L28 to about 330RWHP, if you can keep the thermal issues under control. The GM 3800SC unit is *ok*, but is much more difficult to package in the bay owing to the long nosedrive assembly and wide mounting pattern. If you can either machine the nosedrive, or re-machine the housing for a smaller bolt pattern, then it would be much easier to use in an intercooled application. Edited April 23, 2013 by Xnke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanchez Posted April 23, 2013 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 Yeah I was looking at the specs and the SC14 displaces roughly 1400cc of air at max RPM, barely enough to get any good boost out of an L28. Plus they are prone to high temperatures which means high chances for detonation. On your build you use an Eaton M62, what sort of power gains are you looking at? I would estimate you are getting about ~10psi of boost making 250hp at the rear wheels with an aftermarket ECU correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I laid out exactly how to calculate boost, and did a bit of handwaving on power projections in that thread, but the SC14 is a little more capable than *that*. It moves 1400cc/revolution...So if you drive it at a 1:1 ratio, that's 1400cc's of air displaced into the engine, when the engine itself is only displacing...1400cc's. 4-strokes only displace the full volume every TWO revolutions. So a 1:1 drive ratio will result in supernormalizing (I guess...in turbocharging it's called turbonormalizing...) and zero boost. Same thing with an M90, too...similar displacement. You need to work out what drive ratio you need to get the required amount of air into the engine. If you had, say, a 2.8L/rev Lysholm (big aftermarket unit from a cobra mustang or something) you could run a 1:1 drive and get 14lbs of boost easily. (This is an expensive, but viable idea, since you won't need intercooling at this level. It's also going to require getting creative with the packaging.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanchez Posted April 23, 2013 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 The m90 should blow enough air through to get some good boost near what an L28et would be pushing. And I am certain that the Z has room for it either under the manifold or below it. And I am certain it can be done without too much money and fabrication. Right now in my engine bay I have room to store 3-30 racks of beer on the passenger side and a 12 pack under the manifold (don't ask me why I know that). I just need to figure out about the TB and tubing and the belt system and it should all mate up to a stock Z car. If I am wrong I would like to know, I just think the sound of a SC and the ability to control when it is used makes it great for a stealth powerhouse. Plus having recently driven my friends dads very on with the quad turbo compared to his SC Countach, I liked the feel of the Countach best and I was able to save gas driving it to the track with the flip of a switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 All that room disappears in a big hurry when you start putting stuff in the bay... Trust me on that one. The M90 and SC14 are pretty close in displacement...the M90's displacement will allow up to about 14lbs of boost on the L28 efficiently, but thermal management is *key*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanchez Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 Yeah I heard the SC14 have a big problem with overheating, I would never run boost or SC without an intercooler. I can get an M90 from my area for 100 dollars so giving it a try will not be at all costly, and I have decent fabrication skills to make mounts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I hate to bust your chops like this bud, but "it won't be costly" is not the way to do this. It *WILL* be costly. After my initial mounting of the supercharger, the "cheap build" went out the window with the ancilleries to get it up and going. I've spent nearly 670$ on this, plus almost 7 months of several-hours-a-night+ work. What are you doing for engine management? The stock ECU will NOT cut it...and you probably don't want to deal with tuning blowthrough carbs. A drawthrough carb is a NO-NO with air-to-air intercooling, one backfire and the whole front end goes up in a ball of flame. Keep in mind when making your mounts that the belt tension is around 180lbs static, PLUS the dynamic loading of a 40HP compressor! Mind the mounts and tensioner don't flex. Mine did! I have to re-build my tensioner assembly because it allows the belt to walk off the front of the slack side pulley. And that was not even under full-load! Just about 5-6 HP of drive at 7000RPM. At full loading, the belt walked off the tensioner at only 3000RPM and when I built the tensioner, I could stand on it and not get any measurable flex, and I'm 250lbs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanchez Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 Wow 180 lbs of static pressure on the belt system. I gotta say that is a lot more than I was expecting, that does make this a whole lot more complicated than I had hoped. I have a Megasquirt ready to go when I switch my cam and swap over the SU's for EFI on my F54/P79 setup. Well looks like I have no hopes of doing this even with the 1k I set aside for this project, my best choice would just be a port and polish to get the most out of my L28, shiuld be able to squeeze maybe 150whp out of that. But thanks for alk this info, even though it was not what I wanted to hear, now anyone else who comes up with these insane ideas like me will have a little more information than what I kept running into which was "Its possible" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 The belt tension kills it?? Come on, that's a nothing problem. just have to design for it. Cog belts don't run such high tensions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanchez Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 Is that not alot of of tension it seems like alot. Im sure it is obvious that I am really new to Forced Induction, I have done my research I just need to make my way around that learning curve. I have been crunching numbers on alot of Superchargers available to figure out the Drive ratio I need for certain boost levels. I began working on my Z when I was 15 (18 now), and I built it back to my daily driver from a car that could barely make it a mile, had no floors and sounded like death itself. Since then I have helped rebuild many more simple NA engines, but my L24 is giving up so I rebuilt an L28 and I am about to drop it in with SU's just because I need a daily driver. Once I go to college I plan on doing more work while I dont need to drive it. This was/is my first and only car and I want to take it to my grave, but I cannot stand having sports car that will not crush on the streets. My preferred direction is SC and you are clearly very intelligent about this. Is your build complete? Do you have any problems with it? Thanks so much for bearing with me, if you read my other topics Im sure you can tell that I can be indescive and sound a little (I cannot think of the word right now) and tend to plan very far ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 No, I'm not finished with it. Take a read through it and you can find a few of the pitfalls I've run into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkstarrocker Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 (edited) I'm still not sure why you have to run so much tension... is it a function of your serp belt setup? I know the tensions aren't as high on OEM applications, even with increased boost. EDIT: I don't know as much as I think and I still get schooled. Edited April 27, 2013 by darkstarrocker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Yeah, they're that high. Look up the Dayco or Goodyear tension requirements for a 6-rib serpentine belt...Dayco does the endurance testing on their belts at 22lbs/rib. 22lbs*6 ribs = 132lbs for a normal accessory drive, for long belt life. Goodyear wants 30-32lbs of tension per rib. It's really that high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkstarrocker Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 That's crazy! I never would have thought... I can compress the tensioner on my G60 by hand. The G-Lader must require less tension. But, now I think about it, I did need a special tool for my MINI, that was an Eaton M45. The special tool was a 3' bar to compress the tensioner... Never though about the forces at work until now. Previous statement redacted! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 I am actually using the accessory drive belt for the MINI as my supercharger drive belt...makes it easy to remember what size to get! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexter72 Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 If you would like more power consider going turbo, you can put a turbo setup together for that 1k you were going to spend on the supercharger setup. If you have the megasquirt already, you only need a few other pieces to complete it. Plus, if your not in boost all the time you can get good fuel mileage out of a turbo setup. I still haven't figured out how now to be boost though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 Guess you didn't read the first post there, dexter...he is not looking for the "go turbo" response. Sometimes a turbo is NOT what you want! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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