bigbreak_2000 Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 I had the Tokico performance springs installed on my 280zx. The front seems too stiff and rides bumpy. What do I look for to determine if has has been installed correctly or if there is product issue with the spring itself? The shock inserts are new Bilstein (for a 300zx NA, 1984) with a spacer at the bottom. Strut housing was not modified. OEM bump stops. With the spring at static, how much space should there be between the coils, 1/8-1/4 enough? From product picture on MSA website where I bought the springs it looks as if the front and rear spring diameters are different (rear should be wider and less coils) and it will not be possible that the insaller could have mistakenly installed the F/R in reverse order, or is it possible? I ask becuase many treads comment the springs rates are 175F/200R. I even called MSA rep and that is also what he told me the rates are stiffer on the rear springs. However the guy who installed the springs told he he always put the stiffer spring on the front for cars with a front engine read drive since the stiffer spring in the front helps with dive under braking and control through cornering. With the car in the garage and wheels on I cant see of the coils are narrower and more in the front. Looking at the car it also appears the rear is slightly lower than the front which is another reason it is puzzling me if there is a product issue or if they've been installed correctly. If I press on the front bumper there is very little if any compression, the rear is much easier to compress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbreak_2000 Posted August 21, 2013 Author Share Posted August 21, 2013 I'll add this comment: my expectation was not that a 175 stiff spring should feel this hard. Technically 175 is near 50% stiffer than stock but in terms of performance tuning 175 is on the low side. On normal street driving the roads are very uneven in my part of town.Lots of new construction, lots of rain, the The roads are patched, full of bumps and dips. On normal turning the front tires squeak. Understandably there is more camber now, but with the hardness I just don't think there is good contact maintained when there is slight imperfection on the road surface. The car handles great at high speeds and road holding is good, no complaints in that area. Someone had suggested to me that I change tires. I have BFG G Force sports 205/55-15 tires on the front 15x7 wheels and 225/50-15 on the rear 15x8 wheels. My other thought was, if the strut/springs is not at fault perhaps for the fall and winter driving I should change the tires for a softer sidewall. Either mount 225/50 on the front or switch to rounder tires, perhaps all 4 tires to the stock 205/60 profile. the 205/60 is almost 1 inch higher tire and will give a softer sidewall, also a narrower footprint, and perhaps less unsprung weight, which will translate to a softer ride and less shock felt on the steering wheel. Does anyone here have a picture of a 205/60 mounted on a 15x8 wheel and is that going to be too much of a stretch and safety risk? All manufacturers for that size tire seem to recommend the max width as a 7.5. Is there a recommended tire brand with a construction more suitable for that extra 0.5 in stretch? The 205/60 on a 7 inch wide wheel should be ok. With the 205/60 having a 24.7 wheel height (and the 205/55 had a height of 23.9), will that cause rubbing issue against the perch or fender, now with the Tokico lowering springs? All my wheels are 0 offset. I haven't done measurements yet and would like to avoid spacers if I can. With the current 205/55-15 on the car, it feels by finger there is about 0.5 in gap currently between the top shoulder of the tire and the spring perch. I don't know if the height of the 205/60 will cause rubbing here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 A photo of the springs would be very helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 It's really not possible to install the 280zx Tokico springs incorrectly. The fronts are much larger in OD the the rears. Please do some more searching in the Suspension forum and FAQ. That will help you figure out what is making the front end of your car feel stiff. You should also get the FSM to help you understand the spring sizes and installation on your car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluDestiny Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 (edited) What John said on the springs. The fronts are larger and the rears are smaller, OD wise. You can not mess them up. The rears are stiffer because the zx needs less squat plus it has a lot of weight back there (20 gal gas tank). The stiffness is probably coming from the shorter shock, assuming you had the same tires on the car before you changed the springs.Why did you use a 300zx shock and not a 280zx shock? and did you have those shocks on with stock springs before you installed the tokicos?Tire construction and sidewall height play a huge role in street driving. A bigger sidewall on a floppier tire will make it more comfortable, but you will get a squishy feeling during turns, which I didn't like. Edited August 21, 2013 by BluDestiny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbreak_2000 Posted August 22, 2013 Author Share Posted August 22, 2013 I am still not certain if lowering springs, and not shortening the strut, will impact the wheel offset requirements? I think it does because I have more negative camber and it looks to me there is less space now between the inside shoulder of the tire and the spring perch. And this is with the lower 205/55 tire on 7 in and 0 offset wheels on the front. So has anyone experience with the Tokico springs on the zx with the 15 in wheels and the 205/60 tire, will it rub or would I need a spacer? the car before the conversion used the stock shocks. Both sets of wheels (the 14 in oem 6 spokes) and the 15 in Compomotives in 0 offset did not have any clearance issues. I went with the bilstein decision for the front inserts becuase that is what many folks in Australia run these cars with, the insert fits well and only require a small spacer, and I was told it is overall a more durable shock that the tokico inserts. Bilstein also still makes a rear shock for the 280zx, as OEM replacement. I got hold if a brand new set and just need to install them. I had to wait a couple months for them while on back order so in the mean time I went with the tokico blue shocks on the rear. I checked the front and have 5 coils in the tokico springs. top and bottom seated and then 3 inbetween. there is about 1/2 in clearance gap between them with the car stationary. John said the fronts are the wider OD, so if I look at the MSA product picture it then looks like the fronts are the ones with 5 coils. The rears are then the longer and narrower coil, so my installation seems to be appropiate. Then the question is just, is 1/2 clearance between coils on the front seems ok? Maybe I just then just need to let the springs settle and see how that goes, and get used to the harder ride. I still think the BFG 205/55 are a hard sidewall tire, so perhaps a softer sidewall for the winter roads will help make it more comfortable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 A 1/2" gap between 5 coils gives you at least 2" of bump travel which is fine for a lowered street car. The Bilstiens will feel stiffer then the shocks you had in before because the Bilstiens are a performance shock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aarang Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Do you have P/N's for the Bilstiens F and R ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbreak_2000 Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 the bilstein rear shock is part # 24-000574 and front insert is part # 34-002643I took a few pictures this morning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbreak_2000 Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbreak_2000 Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 sorry I don't know why all the pictures turned sideways or upside down when I attached them to the post. It is just to give you a visual of how much clearance there is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbreak_2000 Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 (edited) So we looked over the front suspension and everything looked to be installed correctly. Those ate really beefy bilsteins. They must be doing their job there is no bouncing. So looking things over I noticed the engine mounting nuts are missing and the two bolts from the compressor is not on and the starter bolts are loose. Oh man .the guy who installed the engine really did not pay much attention . After tightening things up. The car drives much tighter and there is no longer the "crash bam' feeling and noises that I thought was caused by issues with the front spring and shock setup. I feel much better now Edited August 30, 2013 by bigbreak_2000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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