Anyone recognize this draw through setup?

[gorillaman2012]

Bought this kit off another member mainly for the cool factor but I tried doing a little bit of background research and couldn't find a whole lot. Just seeing if anyone recognizes this setup or if it's just a one off and I'm lucky to have it. Thanks all!

[gorillaman2012]

Sorry here's the picture.

[Tony D]

They're out there. Functionality is similar to a Turbo Tom's setup. Anything applicable to a Turbo Tom's setup is equally applicable to this setup. I have that manifold myself.

[Ericzx]

That's a Cartech draw -thru turbo system fron the early 80's sold by Cartech out of Dallas,Tx,Corky Bells old company..That system came wih a T4 Ray Jay  turbo mounted on a Cartech turbo exhaust manifold and Rotomaster external wastegate set to 5-7psi adjustable.Included was a water injection sytem.Cost back then was roughly $1500.If I do remember it came with a Holley 390cfm carb ..My Friend ran that Cartech system w/nitrous but was running a Holley 650 double pumper with 20psi plus boost with forged Arias pistons,MSD ignition etc. in his series 1 240z back in the day,early 80's.

Edited April 16, 2014 by Ericzx

[gorillaman2012]

That definitely helps with figuring out the potential! Thanks! Wouldn't happen to have any pictures or build threads on your friends setup would you?

[zenki28x]

You wouldn't be looking to get rid of it by any chance would you? I've never seen these official draw thru setups in person , just custom DIY with a single weber or SU

[Tony D]

Build Threads from the 80's?

 

Only if they Cached on ARPANET...

 

Look up Texis300 here on his progress of the rebuild of his original Turbo Toms setup. It's about as thorough as you will find, it's one of the reasons I bough his setup in particular. Known quantity with known history and documentation from day ONE!

 

Andy Flaggs Cartech Setup running a 75 Shot ran low 12's on a bone stock L28ET pumped up on boost and a 650 Holley as well. That was like 1990.

In the late 80's Richard's Z and ZX Service in LA was running 11's on that setup in a full bodied ZX.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Tony D

[gorillaman2012]

Sorry zenki but I plan on holding on to this. I got lucky finding it and for $300 I'm keeping it at least until I can find out what all its capable of as it sits. If I'm not a fan of it I'll let you know.

[CarolinaTZ]

That is also similar to a BAE system.  There were several companies BITD doing similar things to this.

 

Tom Wyatt (Turbo Tom) did more in the way of R&D and motor prep than any of the others.  You could buy one of his systems....what I'll call "mail order" just like any of the other brands (Crown, Cartech, BAE, etc) and just bolt it on.  But Tom's desire was to offer more than a bolt on system.....his basic system was better sorted out/refined than the others.  It included a modified Holley, his water injection was very well engineered to control detonation up to 15++ psi, he modified the ignition advance weights in the distributor, etc.   His 1st gen system used a modified oem exhaust manifold - his last gen system used his own cast manifold which had bigger ports and flowed better...he never used an elbow to bolt the turbo onto the end of a stock manifold like the others did...this kept the turbo closer to the ports to increase efficiency.  He used a Turbonetics wastegate...some of the others didn't even use a wastegate.  MSD ignition.  There was a particular Racer Brown camshaft as an option.  The list goes on!  I had one of these 1st gen systems in the mid 80's and it was very quick....and reliable.  

 

My '72 240Z currently have his last gen. system which has his own cast manifold....this was available in late '82.  This is a turn-key motor.....I have all the original receipts and the cost of the kit alone in 1982 was $2685.  I also have the receipts for modifying/building the engine in-house.  This included CCing the head to drop compression and O-ringing the head.  As well as extra time spent polishing/fitting the crank and balancing the engine.  My point is he loved Datsuns and knew them well.  And while no carburetor system is as refined nor can be finely tuned like a modern EFI system, Turbo Tom's system was the best you could get in a carbed turbo setup BITD.  

 

His literature is a joy to read.  He made claims of his system making 400+hp at 21psi.  And his claims of making a street turbo Porsche look like it's anchored to a tree stump is funny stuff! 

[Tony D]

^^^^Texis300's system is independent tribute to what was said above. This system was a full boat early system, and the PO had flown TT in to help with tuning the system. The build was scrupulous in it's documentation, and from a draw-through perspective very good. I have since sourced the late-model TT Exhaust Manifold and may "update" the system I got from T300 with it. They ate a PRIME example of "know what you want going in and not getting greedy"! Like a Turbo Corvair, if you set it up, and STUCK WITH THE POWER YOU GOT, they were as rock-solid reliable as any other OEM Offering in that era. Continually fiddle, and like anything it could be problematic....turbos got a bad name due to "fiddle fiddle fiddle fingers!"

 

I will differ on "best carbbed turbo system" though, as the HKS Systems, as well as the SK's that started appearing in Japan in the late 70's were much more refined in terms of instant response, and drivability. They were very well integrated kits, and when the ZXT came out, it was THE way to boost power over the stock EFI. I preferred the Blowthrough to the draw through at 10-15psi. Below that, it really depends on the turbo used and how well the carb on the draw through was jetted. The TT System was TONS better than the Crown which made the Datsun as responsive as a Corvair Corsa 180 with a four barrel modification! (Not necessarily a good thing...) Due to that waste gate, it also was better in terms of controlling detonation.

 

Each has it's place in my heart. I have a car for each... Though both systems will likely have a TBI Injected setup replace the carb, as will my 66 Turbo Corsa. That simple upgrade will jump the cold drivability of any of these systems forward 20 years, and still retain that vintage look.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Tony D

[Tony D]

And you got me: "BITD"? I'll bite!

 

Being in SoCal the past 20 Years, it's "Best In The Desert" ... which obviously isn't it...

 

I'm hoping "Back In The Day" hasn't become acronymized now, too... But I fear, contextually, that this indeed is what it means.

[CarolinaTZ]

You got it, Tony...."Best in the Dessert"......just kidding but that's funny stuff.  You are correct, and sorry to say it has fallen prey to this abbreviated world we live in ...."Back in the Day".  I spent several years collecting and restoring vintage BMX bikes and that was a popular acronym in that community.  

 

I'm a little familiar with Texis300's car/system and the history of the PO and Turbo Tom's personal involvement.  We were in touch some back when he was getting it going again.

 

While I was a little surprised he split up the system from the car it was built on and the history it represented, I was glad to read you ended up with it.  I'm nostalgic about TT's systems and I believe you are too and you'll appreciate it for what it is.    

 

You were fortunate to find the late model TT manifold.  That's the one I would use.  My system uses that manifold and besides supposedly flowing better, I like how the wastegate flange is designed into it.  The first generation TT system I used to have used a saddle-mount Turbonetics wastegate, and while I doubted the design, it never leaked.  That early system always ran rich in the low to mid range....I tried different jetting but it was always rich.  I had Tom's optional 600 double-pumper with the standard 2-1/2" head pipe.....I think it would have run better with the optional 3-1/2" head pipe.  My current system uses his Holley 390.    

 

I'm not familiar with the HKS or SK systems but I don't doubt they were well designed and possibly superior....but I am biased  Did they use Mikunis or SKs?  I would like to see some literature from these systems.

 

The TBI injection sounds like a good direction.  Did someone on here go with a TBI before or was it just discussed?  I know you have a lot going on but, I would like to hear how that turns out.

[texis30O]

Hey now....

LOL.  I am glad it went to a new home.  I was about as tried and true to the refurbishment of that system as I could be.  Tony got a screaming set up that will be fun to drive.  I gave up all documentation with the system as I knew Tony would take them and keep them safe.  Tom and the PO of my car exchanged mail and phone calls back in the day as they each were offering turbo set ups and my PO wanted to have his car outfitted with the best at the time. 

If you have any questions hit me up I will let you know what I know and go from there.  Tony has ALL my documentation with original TT literature and photos he sent out back in the day. 

[CarolinaTZ]

Absolutely, Texis30O!  I know Tony got an awesome setup and I'm glad he's the one.  I was stating that I was surprised (not that you were wrong) that you split it up after you dug into the history and spent the time and resources you did to get it back to it's former glory!  I enjoyed your youtube videos!  Yours is an awesome early car (great survivor condition)....do you have plans for a screamin' powerplant?

 

Thanks for offering to share any knowledge or documentation you have.  My second TT car is my current '72 240Z (with all documentation/receipts).  I bought it in 2010 from a Z guy who owned it for a short time (it sat in his garage for a few months and he never cranked the car).....he got it from the owner (of almost 30 years) who had Tom work his expertise, essentially turn-key, in the early 80's with TT receipts totalling over 8 grand...not counting the cost of the car.  My cylinder head is stamped with the owner's initials...that was TT method of keeping track of customer parts.  The original owner stated that there are 30k miles on the engine since Tom built it.  I have the car up on stands installing frame connectors, coilovers, wilwoods, 3.90 clsd, ZX 5-speed and so forth...it's a looong term project!  I have pretty much all the parts needed to complete it....I just need to put it all together.  But life gets in the way .  The motor sits on a stand wrapped up and ready to be put back into service.

 

I installed my first TT system on a motor I built in the mid 80's.....I never flew Tom in to have him dial my car in  But, I had his number memorized and used to call him and Nancy regularly when I was putting the system together and dialing it in!  I put that motor in one of the famed and funky '77 Zap striped cars.  That car has had a colorful history...it currently resides in Ohio and puts down almost 500rwhp...not with TT system though.

 

Boy, sorry if we hijacked your thread Gorillaman2012.  Yours has a cool factor (see what you started) for sure and you are "lucky" to have it.  Is it a working system....if so, you oughtta be able to surprise some unsuspecting Mustang and Camaro owners!

Edited September 9, 2014 by CarolinaTZ

[Tony D]

My oft used phrase of late: "I need this system like another hole in my head...but..."

 

The Supercharged 240 that I bought from Don Pineda's Mom has an early Analog Four-Barrel TBI system. He had that system sorted and running great back in the early 90's---which was the last time I saw it before I bought it off his mom after his sudden passing. That was another "I need another 240Z like a hole in the head, but..." moment. Craigslist low ballers and people who wanted to hack the car up from what Don had made it. 

 

People who build a car understand it more than the sea of wannabes and flippers out there making a quick buck. . . they don't understand, nor appreciate the term "This car is sorted..." Everybody talks about the quirks of their performance build, but the BIG test is, can you get in the car, turn the key, and head off to the other side of the country/continent and not think about it. Don had a trailer hitch on his car to go pick up his bikes, and tote the trailer he carried his racing tires and stuff in when he went up to Willow Springs.

 

I got the feeling the PO, as well as Texis300 went through that same process. I know I sorted my Corvair Turbo back in 79/80 and it was a hell of a process. Hobbs switch at 15 psi that light a yellow light, another at 18 psi that lit an orange light, and last one that lit a RED LIGHT at 21psi. WASTEGATE? That was your right foot! You would gauge your throttle foot to bounce or keep illuminated that yellow and orange pair of lights but not get more than the dim flicker out of the red. When I heard of guys putting EFI "From Some Datsun" on the cars, I thought that was neat. When I saw my first Datsun 280ZXT and that turbo with a wastegate I thought "WOW, I wouldn't need the lights, I could just SET the boost at 20 psi and then not worry about detonation! (which started at 22-23psi with the SU setup, and closer to 25-27 with the big four barrel and open dump setup we ran in the winter...)

 

When I saw that TT setup, I knew my green 71 needed that setup. I wanted something "period" --- not the latest technological gizmos, but something to show people that in the stone ages, we COULD SORT OUT A CAR and it would be reliable.

 

My living in Japan was a shock. EVERYBODY was running turbos, 300-350hp was the norm on the street. The SK Box initially was run with Mikunis, and later they put red tags over the Jet Covers that said "SK" --- eventually they made their own carbs, but even by 1985 the first Analog Systems were well out in Japan. I've got a full brochure from then showing the Analog Computer Box, and Dual Injector ITB's (big injectors? Naw, you just double them up and if you need more fuel, that's what the AIC and six injectors in the box are for, and the three more in the inlet ducting!) HKS use Mikunis as well. Seems everybody did, simply because it was a Japan Thing... Dellortos with the Turbo Jets and Mods seem to be a FAR better choice (Maserati BiTurbo...a production Blow-Through Multiple Carb Car!---If the Italians can do an OEM Blowthrough Application, so can I!!)

 

The HKS and SK systems both transformed from Carbs to ITB's by the mid 80's. A vast majority of people ran the Carb Kits because you could buy the stuff piecemeal, but the parts were out there to do ITB's in 85, and by 91 Don Pineda was running a blow through four barrel air door with a Novi Centrifugal Supercharger... And here I come to MSA parked next to him with my Blowthrough Turbo 44 Mikuini 240 Z and away we went talking... The last time I saw Don was at the Bob's Big Boy up in the valley. Outcazst Z would hold meetings there, and Don was a Valley Dude. We got to talking again as I'd driven out in my "Shark Car" and as everybody left we kept on talking. Soon, I looked at my watch and it was 3AM... "Damn Don! I gotta get home!" He looked at his watch, smirked and said "Yeah, traffic should be clear by now." I smiled as well. My last vision of him was of the car I bought off his mom two years ago, peeling off one ramp as I took the other, my BOV making "that noise" and his build winding a bit higher and as he lifted, I saw up inside his pipe a blue flame lazily working its way around inside there as he hit the next gear and got busy...

 

"I Digress!"

[CarolinaTZ]

"I need this system like another hole in my head...but..."....seems like you do have a nice collection to showcase the evolution of the hobby/sport.  Nothing wrong with that.   

 

Good story.....about the Hobbs switch and all!  I have one that's supposed to be an oil pressure safety backup with the fuel pump...real hi-tec .  I also have an MSD6-BTM to help with ig. timing control....that's about as hi-tec as my TT system is.  That had to be some hairy stuff modulating the throttle at those boost levels.  What's the connection between the open wastegate dump and winter?  Or was it the lower IAT?  

 

Those Japanese sytems from then 80's look pretty amazing.....they rarely do anything halfway.  I wouldn't mind having one of those analog ITB systems.  Were their exhaust manifolds cast or welded tubing?....I doubt they used a modified oem manifold!  

 

Sounds like the supercharged 240Z is a well sorted out piece.  Just goes to show the different ways to do things reliably.  Thanks for sharing! 

and "keep the red light dimly flickering"