JMortensen Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) Installing an ACE dual 7.25" clutch. First problem I had with it was that the back of the button flywheel didn't fit inside the dish in the stock flexplate. Called ACE, they said get a Quicktime flex plate. Did that, then realized QM had sold me the wrong HRB. Got the Tri-Lite, and took measurements to get the correct bearing. Got the bearing, now I'm going to bolt it all together, and I have another problem. The button flywheel is loose on the studs. I put the 7/16" dowel in to try to center things up, the flywheel still has .013" movement on the studs. Not sure what to do next. I think my options are to try to center it and then torque the FW bolts down, have the ACE flywheel machined to fit inside the stock much thinner flex plate (which will mean that my measurements are wrong again and I'll need another bearing from QM), or ??? Here is a video I made of the problem. What would you do? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAhhHiROFO0&feature=youtu.be Edited June 7, 2014 by JMortensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share Posted June 7, 2014 Had an idea. Make a faux pilot to put the pieces on, then drill a couple new holes for shear pins. Maybe even make the shear pins permanent by welding them to the flex plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsicard Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 If the button flywheel bolts are already torqued down, MAYBE those are the wrong diameter shank bolts for the button flywheel. The bolts must have a step down shank dimensions for mounting both the flexplate and the Button Flywheel. Best to get QuarterMaster on the phone and ask about the 13 thousands play and if you have the proper bolts for the button flywheel. Just some suggestions. Best of luck to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1 Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I don't have any experience with the ACE, but in general it seems there should be something to register and center the flywheel, like a hub or lip. I don't think the bolts alone should do that unless there's a special shouldered bolt. I would talk to ace some more, I bet you end up with some problems as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted June 8, 2014 Author Share Posted June 8, 2014 I don't have any experience with the ACE, but in general it seems there should be something to register and center the flywheel, like a hub or lip. I don't think the bolts alone should do that unless there's a special shouldered bolt. I would talk to ace some more, I bet you end up with some problems as is. The flywheel does fit the pilot on the crank, but it didn't fit in the dish of the stock flexplate, so they told me to get the Quicktime plate. It has a thick spacer on it that is as deep as the pilot on the crank, leaving the ACE flywheel loose and unregistered. I like the shouldered bolt option, but I think I'd have to open up the bolt holes to do it because there isn't enough room around the bolts for anything but a super thin shim, and there's the risk that the holes wouldn't get opened up on center. I think right now the safe option is to either replace the flywheel with something that fits the stock flexplate and reorder the bearing again (which I would like to avoid) or to do a couple more shear pins with everything mounted on a fake crank pilot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattd428 Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Discard is correct flywheel bolts should have a larger shank than the threads. That's probably your problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted June 8, 2014 Author Share Posted June 8, 2014 (edited) They are ARP flywheel bolts for an LS1. Not seeing shouldered bolts here: https://www.google.com/search?q=ls1+flywheel+bolt&oq=ls1+flywheel+bolt&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i59j69i64.4751j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8#q=ls1+flywheel+bolt&start=0&tbm=shop&tbs=vw:l Edited June 8, 2014 by JMortensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattd428 Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 If you have a lathe make some spacers to take up the slack between the bolt and flywheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted June 8, 2014 Author Share Posted June 8, 2014 I don't have a lathe, but the spacers would be just a couple thou wall thickness. I would imagine that it would be really hard to cut spacers that thin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattd428 Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Call arp see if that some with the right specs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 My standard-style flywheel didnt gave that slop around the bolts-the tolerance was very tight. I wonder if you could just have another set of holes machined to your flywheel bolts by your local machine shop? So many guys seem to have trouble with the assembly of these multi-plate set ups. I'd hate for you to get it all bolted together, then have to tear it down later. Thanks for the well-done video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattd428 Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 ^^^^^ good idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted June 8, 2014 Author Share Posted June 8, 2014 Yeah, that's not a bad idea at all. Thanks Keith. I think I'll take it in and say "What would you do? Add shear pins, or drill new holes?" I do think adding shear pins has less likelihood of getting them wrong, because presumably everything would be centered perfectly on the pilot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattd428 Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 From my experience if there is slop in your bolt holes the bolts will brake. Just. My .02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 Shear pins eliminate that problem. That's their purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I don't know why I can't remember for sure (PTSD from those weeks of clutch combat a few years ago-a hard won victory)! But, if I recall accurately, the standard flywheel fit over the end of the crank as almost a zero-tolerance fit. When I didn't get the bolt holes indexed properly, I couldn't rotate the plate on the crank, but had to pull it straight off and try again. I'm kind of surprised that the alignment of the flywheel to the crank is so bolt-dependent. I know you have thought thru this (and have lots more experience than I), but why exactly do you need a dual disc clutch? Sexy, but seems like just extra parts to break. If you were to back up and look at a single clutch system, do you think the supplier would give you your money back (before) you re-drill? You could always just TELL your friends that you have a dual disc clutch and I would back you up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 I wanted to lose the weight and get faster shifting. A similar setup with no holes in the flexplate weighed in at 13 lbs. For a street car it's not the best, but mine is going to be a trailer queen race car, so there are no downsides to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 FWIW, I talked to ACE today, sending the button back along with the stock flexplate and the aftermarket one. Sounds like they're going to redesign the part. They did say that the bolt holes are the wrong size but that I was the first customer to actually complain about it. I asked that they change the design so that the button fits with the stock flexplate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1 Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Good move. I think that would have been a vibration nightmare waiting to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsicard Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 FWIW, I talked to ACE today, sending the button back along with the stock flexplate and the aftermarket one. Sounds like they're going to redesign the part. They did say that the bolt holes are the wrong size but that I was the first customer to actually complain about it. I asked that they change the design so that the button fits with the stock flexplate. That speaks VOLUMES about the quality of the supplier. Fit checks should be done in the prototype stage of development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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