JRas Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) Hi, Is there any legitimate reason why an engine blocks serials would be ground off? I'm worried about using the engine in my car out of fear the car would be crushed/impounded. Not sure when they check serials on an engine but I guess it's possible. I asked a friend of mine if his Police Officer friend knew anything about using acid to raise the serials temporary to find out for sure. He said he knew nothing about it, and I should be fine.. I have a bill of sale, proof that I did not steal this engine.. if it is stolen. Debating calling the Police Department and seeing the best course of action. I read online a guy said they sent an officer out to retrieve the serials for him. In the case it is stolen.. what happens? Thanks Edited July 28, 2014 by JRas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z240 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Ask yourself this question, then decide what to do.... How many remanufactured engines get put in cars in North America in one year...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Its not a legal issue. It might be an issue if you're trying to sell the car as numbers matching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRas Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 Ask yourself this question, then decide what to do.... How many remanufactured engines get put in cars in North America in one year...... so during the remanufactured process they grind down the blocks serials? Its not a legal issue. It might be an issue if you're trying to sell the car as numbers matching. I'm not trying to sell the car as a collectible or anything if I did, my plan is to put it in a 240SX. I'm just worried about the legality with the serials missing. I have a bill of sale, unfortunately I didn't know it was missing serials until I came back from deployment. I read online it was illegal to modify serial numbers, and police officers can run said numbers to determine if it's stolen. I'm stationed in California but the car would be registered in Arizona. I just don't want any trouble from Police Officers, specially CHP who have been known to pop hoods and take pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 DEFINE 'grind off the serial numbers'.... There ARE Nissan Service Replacement Blocks out there without serialised numbers on them. I know of at least 2 in early one-owner 240Z's. Ground off serial numbers are one thing. Not having them altogether is another if it's a service replacement block. Anything sold before 1981 is pretty much wide-open. CHP has a hard time enforcing on non-residents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) REMOVING a serial number is illegal. Remanufactured Engines MUST retain the serial number they were imprinted with from the manufacturer. I don't know of a SINGLE reputable remanufacturer who does ANYTHING to the engine numbers --- most simply attach a reference plate of their own configuration to identify their work for warranty purposes down the road (usually with a solder-melt rivet that goes away if you overheat the engine!) Requirements in CA are that you have a source document to prove the origin of every major component replaced during and engine swap / rebuild, etc. All dismantlers in CA are required to provide you this documentation when you purchase the components. Yes even PYP...there is a small sign stating if you wish the documentation, to make it known. They will get the VIN from the vehicle and give you official documents to present to the DMV to register the engine swap you did. This is required to be recorded to update the DMV record and title. I'd say 98% of the replaced engines out there in CA now are 'illegal engine swaps' to the letter of the law. The 2% that aren't are people who have collector status by the CVC and are not required to report engine swaps until such time as the vehicle is sold. It's all online. Edited July 29, 2014 by Tony D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRas Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 DEFINE 'grind off the serial numbers'.... There ARE Nissan Service Replacement Blocks out there without serialised numbers on them. I know of at least 2 in early one-owner 240Z's. Ground off serial numbers are one thing. Not having them altogether is another if it's a service replacement block. Anything sold before 1981 is pretty much wide-open. CHP has a hard time enforcing on non-residents. They looked smooth and not oxidized like the rest of the aluminum. I can't look at it again but i'm pretty sure they looked grooved as well. (Far from home, again) It's a newer engine, 2007+ at least REMOVING a serial number is illegal. Remanufactured Engines MUST retain the serial number they were imprinted with from the manufacturer. I don't know of a SINGLE reputable remanufacturer who does ANYTHING to the engine numbers --- most simply attach a reference plate of their own configuration to identify their work for warranty purposes down the road (usually with a solder-melt rivet that goes away if you overheat the engine!) Requirements in CA are that you have a source document to prove the origin of every major component replaced during and engine swap / rebuild, etc. All dismantlers in CA are required to provide you this documentation when you purchase the components. Yes even PYP...there is a small sign stating if you wish the documentation, to make it known. They will get the VIN from the vehicle and give you official documents to present to the DMV to register the engine swap you did. This is required to be recorded to update the DMV record and title. I'd say 98% of the replaced engines out there in CA now are 'illegal engine swaps' to the letter of the law. The 2% that aren't are people who have collector status by the CVC and are not required to report engine swaps until such time as the vehicle is sold. It's all online. What if you bought the engine like so, without knowledge of said removal? I have a proof I bought the engine on eBay if that helps my case. Maybe the engine isn't stolen, it's just extremely weird that someone would grind off said engine serials. I tried to ask a friend who knows an officer if he knew anything about using acid to raise the serial so I could find out. The officer had no idea... I don't plan on ever living in California, so I could care less about complying with their trash laws. I'm keeping the car registered in Arizona. I'm just stationed there, so I may have to deal with CHP occasionally. Don't want my car getting impounded or crushed over it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Ground off Serial Numbers are illegal. Not knowing you bought stolen property is never a defense. Not having serial numbers is something altogether different as I said---I don't know of any 'service replacement' blocks that don't come with a serial number since the feds instituted the 17 digit VIN. Most places--obliterating a serial number makes the item illegal for resale, and in CA results in the item being "462'd" meaning 'dismantler-only'... Before you go cracking on California Laws consider they pretty much mirror FEDERAL LAWS and that in many cases allow for things that FEDERAL statutes do not. If a CHP stops you, and it gets down to checking VIN and Major Component Serial Numbers (I have been VIN verified at least three times that I can think of, but never been under suspicion where they do a Major Components Check) -- if they go that far, and find no serial number, in state or out of state your car his impounded on the spot. Raising a serial number that was obliterated only does you good if the number is not on a hot sheet saying it's stolen. And if you think about it, why would ANYBODY obliterate ANY serial number if not for nefarious purposes??? This is not good. You need to get a VIN match to that vehicle from the seller and keep it with you... Vehicles controlled under the 17 Digit VIN System ARE matched to Engine Numbers, and if that engine number is not there....that raises flags with Law Enforcement. Impounding and Crushing IS a distinct possibility. You need to sort it out, and I would HIGHLY recommend you do NOT hang around any sort of 'street racing' activities---those places are HOT for the Global VIN Checks. You may recall over in Moreno Valley some years ago many Hondas were impounded and crushed (462'd) for having "Illegal Engine Swaps"--it wasn't that they were JDM Engines, it was due to not having reported the engine changes, and in some cases not having identification on the engines as required by both FEDERAL and STATE law...... No Serial Numbers should be a red flag for any buyer. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innamorata 3.6 Modenetta Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I can't say about Nissan engines, but if you deck the block of an older Chevy (small block or big block), you'll remove the engine's serial number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 That's the separation between pre 17 Digit VIN's and post 17 Digit VIN's. You would have to deck like 0.080" and then some to take out most stampings... When we would deck those Chevys, the numbers just looked "cleaner"--like you say--that was a way to tell how much the block was decked: how clean or close to gone the stampings were! Most modern engines won't tolerate a 0.080"+ decking without altering cam drive components, etc! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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