Guest Mike Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 I'm not sure if you're planning on using water injection on an L-series engine or something else. Beware of the straight use of water.. I had been warned about how the particular aluminum alloy used in the L-series heads caused problems when using straight water. It leaches the copper (if memory serves me correct) from the head and will turn it into swiss cheese. I only used water for 1000-1500 or so and only under boost and I pulled the head for something (I can't remember why) and found the runners had pitting in them where they didn't before. I've never heard of this happen to any other tyoe of head other than the ones from the L-series. If you run a mix I was told you should be okay. I'm running straight methanol on my car using a moddified kit from www.devilsownonline.com I've got 6 M5 nozzles plumbed into the runners on my intake and I have my fuel injectors maxed out' date=' so I'm using the methanol as additional fuel to be able to run big boost. It also does a darn good job of lowering intake temps. Once everything is sorted out, I'm going to up the nozzle size and actually start leaning the car out from regular gas and replace it with methanol. As an added benefit, it does keep the combustion chambers and piston tops fairly clean [/quote'] Thanks for the link. This one has a 350 SBC with Edelbrock aluminum heads. Any idea whether straight distilled H2O is safe for those? Regarding your idea to eventually run straight ethanol via direct injection: Are you sure you'll get the same performance with ethanol as with gasoline? I've heard straight ethanol doesn't make as much HP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-ManQ45 Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 Hugh MacInnes, in his book Turbocharging, devoted an entire chapter to water injection. A quick rundown if I may This is cut down/paraphrased: You can only ward off detonation only so much by adding fuel. Once you add water, you can use a leaner AFR than you had at the point you started experiencing detonation and be able to run more boost. A 50/50 mixture of water and alcohol will give even more power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 I've never heard of this happen to any other tyoe of head other than the ones from the L-series. My brother had a POS Mitsubishi wagon that happened to. The head was notorious for getting a leaky head gasket. Coolant would seep into the combustion chamber and swiss cheese the inside of the head. The problem was so common with this type of car that as we walked into the salavage yard with the bad head the guy behind the counter, from across the room, shouted out "Got a Mitsubishi head, huh?" I always figured it was some type of steam explosion that pitted the aluminum. I would think if the water was atomized finely enough that this wouldn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spork Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 Thanks for the link. This one has a 350 SBC with Edelbrock aluminum heads. Any idea whether straight distilled H2O is safe for those? Regarding your idea to eventually run straight ethanol via direct injection: Are you sure you'll get the same performance with ethanol as with gasoline? I've heard straight ethanol doesn't make as much HP. I'm runnning methanol. It may be just a typo, but there is a big difference between ethanol and methanol. As far as the performance goes, I'm already running the meth injection. It takes roughly twice as much methanol as it does regular gas, but it has a much higher octane rating. Many race cars run straight meth (no gas at all). The problem with running it straight is that it is vrey hard on a n engine, it can wash down clyinder walls and dilute the oil and it's pretty corrosive. Since I only run it under boost, I can avoid a lot of those problems. If you're interested in methanol injection more, do some searches over at turbobuick.com, They've got a nitrous, alchy injection forum over there with loads of good info pack into the archive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 Hugh MacInnes' date=' in his book Turbocharging, devoted an entire chapter to water injection. A quick rundown if I may This is cut down/paraphrased: You can only ward off detonation only so much by adding fuel. Once you add water, you can use a leaner AFR than you had at the point you started experiencing detonation and be able to run more boost. A 50/50 mixture of water and alcohol will give even more power.[/quote'] Thanks... I wonder how much this helps MPG? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 My brother had a POS Mitsubishi wagon that happened to. The head was notorious for getting a leaky head gasket. Coolant would seep into the combustion chamber and swiss cheese the inside of the head. The problem was so common with this type of car that as we walked into the salavage yard with the bad head the guy behind the counter' date=' from across the room, shouted out "Got a Mitsubishi head, huh?" I always figured it was some type of steam explosion that pitted the aluminum. I would think if the water was atomized finely enough that this wouldn't happen.[/quote'] I've read that it's the alcohol that pits aluminum heads. I'll post later with the URL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 I'm in the camp that says using a consumable fluid to control detonation on a street car is a bad idea. If you design your turbo system properly, you shouldn't need it. Like Corky Bell said in Maximum Boost, there is no Formula 1 car running water/alcohol injection. Or something to that effect anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 I'm runnning methanol. It may be just a typo, but there is a big difference between ethanol and methanol. As far as the performance goes, I'm already running the meth injection. It takes roughly twice as much methanol as it does regular gas, but it has a much higher octane rating. Many race cars run straight meth (no gas at all). The problem with running it straight is that it is vrey hard on a n engine, it can wash down clyinder walls and dilute the oil and it's pretty corrosive. Since I only run it under boost, I can avoid a lot of those problems. If you're interested in methanol injection more, do some searches over at turbobuick.com, They've got a nitrous, alchy injection forum over there with loads of good info pack into the archive. Thanks for the link. I've read elsewhere regarding the corosive properties of alcohol and it's damaging effects to aluminum and other metals. In fact, I've heard of magnesium carbs dissolving to powder overnight if used with straight methanol (most carbs are magnesium). Does anyone know whether ethanol is safer than methanol? Is it as effective? I don't want to destroy my engine with corosives if other options are available. Perhaps a very weak solution... 20 percent? Or maybe there are chemical buffers available that prevent the corosion? Any chemists out there??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 I'm in the camp that says using a consumable fluid to control detonation on a street car is a bad idea. If you design your turbo system properly, you shouldn't need it. Like Corky Bell said in Maximum Boost, there is no Formula 1 car running water/alcohol injection. Or something to that effect anyway. You're saying just stick with extra fuel injected under boost with a purpose built engine. I didn't design/build my engine. I'm trying to avoid immediate costly engine mods while improving the drivability, MPG, and performance of this car. Yup... I'm looking for a band-aid. That said, I don't want to cause other problems. This may be a moot point (for me) now anyway... and this is off-topic... I've detected a severe vibration in this SBC. At first I thought it was improper driveline angles... but I can feel them while reving the motor in neutral. I hope it's just a harmonic balancer!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 It doesn't have to be purpose built really, just make sure your components are working together within their ranges. It's like putting a super stereo head unit on factory speakers. It would work great until you turned up the volume and blew them out. You can upgrade the speakers, or not turn up the volume. I'm sorry to hear about this new problem though. Hopefully everything will work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-ManQ45 Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 I agree that you should optimize your setup - AFR's, timing, amount/size/efficiency of intercooler. But once that is done, there is a point that no more gas will inhibit detonation. That my friends is the point that you start using water injection. For those with EBC's with 2 or more settings, this would be a piece of cake. MBC's and this combination a bit more of a pain. After all, you can set a max level for when you're just on the street, and select the times that you use tyhe higher boost level and water injection. A fail safe for the wastegate if you run out of water would be nice - hmmmmmm.....Megasquirt, Boost control and water injection w/failsafe - it just might get done... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 It doesn't have to be purpose built really, just make sure your components are working together within their ranges. It's like putting a super stereo head unit on factory speakers. It would work great until you turned up the volume and blew them out. You can upgrade the speakers, or not turn up the volume. I'm sorry to hear about this new problem though. Hopefully everything will work out. Yeah... mismatched components... sort of like me being with Angelina Jolie... I'd blow a gasket. The problem with having that extra power is the lust to use it no matter the consequence:mrgreen: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-ManQ45 Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 If I were with AJ, I'd preignite.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Now see, if you had the o-ringed head, you wouldn't have to worry about your gasket blowing! (what are we even talking about anymore?) Angelina is so hot.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Now see, if you had the o-ringed head, you wouldn't have to worry about your gasket blowing! (what are we even talking about anymore?) Angelina is so hot.... Yeah... if I had a stronger head gasket, I'd just pop a piston or break a rod. It's that "all matched parts" issue again. I guess the trick is getting everything to blow apart at exactly the same time. It's funner that way:mrgreen: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.