scottyMIz Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 I know timz is getting over 400hp at the wheels with his but has anyone got higher than that on the inline six motor?I'm just curious cuz i see all this stuff about supra engines getting like 600 from no internal mods how can that be?Does the dual cams make that much of a difference?or what is it that makes them so easy to mod for big power? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 There are a few things that seem to contribute to the Toyota's success... 4valves per cylinder seems to be a big one They also run VERY strong rods and good pistons. The crank and bearing setup must be pretty darned tough! Initial compression from the factory is only 8.3:1 too. The ECU is probably responsible for some of this - it's full sequential, I think one coil per plug, dual knock sensors, and very aggressive timing. The ECU will also run the car pig rich if you let it - it saves parts at the expense of some power. The fuel system, out of the box with slight mods, can support just over 500 crank HP. Not too shabby IMO! Bear in mind that while it's possible to make 600+HP on the stock block, and even more in some cases, engines that do this are NOT running stock turbos or fuel. Often times they're not running stock cams either. The longblock itself may be untouched but most everything supporting it has been tweaked pretty good. Supra motors DO blow but tuned correctly they won'tshouldn't. The ZXT motor is 2valve, has cast(?) pistons, and has the intake ports over the exhaust ports The Toyota motor benefits from years more development and you also have to realize they're not cheap. The sticker on my particular Supra was nearly $52K! This was years ago too - not like the ZO6s coming out now, we're talking nearly TEN years ago they cost this much This car was apparently geared for a racing series in Japan - just as some US cars may benefit from parts geared towards racing I believe the Supra benefited from Toyota's desire to race up front. The fact that the thing wasn't cheap allowed them to put some serious tech under the hood. To expect a ZXT motor to do that on stock internals just isn't fair. If Nissan (Skyline baby!), GM, or some other company decided to make that sort of commitment we'd see a really nasty motor come out of their camp - sadly they just don't seem interested. Perhaps the Subaru WRX success, the coming of the Skyline to US shores, and the Mitsu EVO VII supposedly coming will wake them up. My fingers are crossed but for now I think I'm pretty happy. AWD would've been nice though Honestly, I would love to have a "cheap" ZXT motor in an older Z to tinker with. I don't think I'd replace any of my existing cars to have it but IMO it sure would be fun to play with. Cost to replace that motor at normal junkyard prices isn't too bad - you could learn lot's! I envy the experience of some of the guys running and blowing them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyMIz Posted January 24, 2002 Author Share Posted January 24, 2002 Thanks BLKMGK that helped alot in understanding the supra I'm just wondering if timz is the only one to get his L series engine in the 400 hp numbers? and i'm talking with out NOS and methenal. I want to know that 400 isn't the most you can get out of a L28 motor.I tried to blow mine well not really but it took a huge beating and still asked for more it just totally suprised me how much abuse that engine took from me i detonated many times and didn't hurt anything!The thing looks great inside the only thing that needed replacing in there was the rings everything else was great the cylinder walls where unscored and no wear ring at the top of them.When i picked my engine up from the shop from being hot-tanked and there was a 400 chevy motor in there for a rebuild and it had crazy wear in the cylinders and everything else.I have to say they are very strong motors i want to build it as far as i can and to say i have a 600hp L series motor would be great i know it will cost me but is it possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyMIz Posted January 24, 2002 Author Share Posted January 24, 2002 thanks for the info i already have the dp from scottie and 3" exhaust all the way to the back.Right now i'm poor and can only afford so much.But i figure i'm only 24 so i have alot of time to do more plus if you stuck me in a 600hp car with no expirence on that much power i'd probably kill myself or get alot of tickets Timz said it best when he told me to work my way up to what ever i wanted cuz it's safer for me and the car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Hrm, obviously use a turbo block. Use a crank that's not been turned, use GOOD rods, use forged pistons with a low CR. I'd consider porting the head and using the best flowing one you could find too. Keep the rotating weight down as best you can. Use really good quality fasteners, especially head bolts, and make sure it's well oiled. So long as you've got fuel I'd guess that you could just keep laying (intercooled) boost to it until something let go! I really don't know at what point that would be but if everything was done right it ought to make a ton of power! Just remember that peak power isn't everything. My power in the Supra is pretty peaky right now, catch me loafing in the wrong gear and it's game over. Supra guys liek to brag peak power but if it's made at 7K with a 7500RPM redline what's the point? A nice broad power band that doesn't put the motor right on the edge of blowing up would probably make for a really nice fast L28 that you could drive and actually enjoy. Scottie raced his pretty successfully and learned a ton with it - he ought to be able to give you some really good pointers on what works for that motor. Start with a good DP and exhaust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony240ZT Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Anyone remember Hoover's red G noze beast? He had a custom forged crank, forged rods/pistons, lots of porting, custom cast intake manifold, custom turbo header, stand alone engine management, custom ground cam, larger valves. He had Rebello build it all for him, must of had big bucks to do that. He was at one time making 500rwhp with the prepped L series block. I would bet that James Thagard will be making some awesome numbers as soon as his new twin turbo setup is finished. Sun Belt built his engine, another Nissan guru group. He, too, has a custom crank, forged rods/pistons. Both guys are 3.0-3.2L stretchers. I think it would be cool to say you have "the ultimate L series engine", but honestly the 1/4 mile times and such don't care what engine got you from point A to B in a period of time. I think if you can do the job and have some money in your pocket after you're done, that's the way to do it. After saying that, I'd like to make the most power a L24 block has ever made in my `73 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 i think hoover is gonna have the title of fastest l- series street car in modern times, so far. man that fool has 3 inch intercooler piping and that stupid crazy turbo header on that thing. a billet bottom end and the electromotive crank billet as well dont help as well. he hollered at me that he has over 30k in that motor alone-its hard to beat that. i think that thing dynoed 300hp at 6psi??? thats nothing for that motor, he could turn up the boost on that real quick. im thinking your basic l28et is pretty cool power right there, and honestly im gonna own a really quick one, real easy to make and easy to keep fast(god maintenance on my stock 280z is love!) im thinking i could have a nice 300hp l-series car that loves long trips one of these days.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Azel Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Tod Kaneko's Z comes to mind when I think of big-power L-serie's. I can't find dyno sheets or stated numbers but his motor is making around 520rwhp. I wouldn't doubt it, with all the attention he paid to the rest of the car, it would be a serious disappointment if his engine was one of, it no THE most powerful Lseries on the planet. Quickly scanning through the list of mods on his motor, I see a lot of thermal and film coating. Does stuff like coating the pistons and valves with heat dissipating chemicals really add substantial amounts of power? Nissan's been using it in their VQ series of motors and it seems to be adding a good 30hp and 25lb/ft of torque compared to the pre-'00 VQ's. At this point, I'm considering boring to 3.1L. I'm shooting for 450rwhp myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tim78zt Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 SSSSHHHHHH!!! Don't tell anyone Azel, but thermal coating is the secret to the extra 50 hp in my "stock" 7psi motor. Well, that AND a to4b super H!! But, yeah, if you think of heat as energy, and the less heat you have being absorbed by the pistons because the crowns have been coated and so has the combustion chamber section of your head and the inside of your exhaust manifold, then you have more energy (power)for the combustion process. Performance Coatings in Dallas will do the job right for you if you go this route. Tim78zt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted January 26, 2002 Share Posted January 26, 2002 thats cool. my favorite part of the straight six is the passenger side, starter, alt, oil filter, electrical, battery, and two hand bellhousing action, heater core, everything has real nice access on that side, its the shiznit. i love my v8 cant stand my b--tch. but one of these days man, imma do a 2.8 with maybe that thermal coating with six tbs and boost of the gods. maybe extruded manifold or something, man that would be a blast. whossh, whoosh. oh hey does anyone know about hoovers n/a project????? i think hoovers car will smoke todd kaneko, and its a daily driver... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z Turbo Posted January 29, 2002 Share Posted January 29, 2002 Yep, TimZ is making 430rwhp on pump gas. Todd K. told me his car made 500rwhp on race gas and 22psi. My car made...well, it isn't running yet! Hoover just sent me a message saying he would have his stuff dynoed with big boost later this week. Get a healthy turbo and run some big boost and you are making big power. Not quite, but you get the idea. I think ole TimZ would be knocking on the 500rwhp if he would only make a header. That is probably the most exciting thing for my new twinturbo setup. Besides having over 1000cfm flow @15psi from the twins, the 1.75" primaries on the turbo header should be brutal for flowing. Oh I can't wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony240ZT Posted January 29, 2002 Share Posted January 29, 2002 So, when's the twin setup going to be running? We've been waiting so long to hear about it I'm sure it will be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody 82 ZXT Posted January 29, 2002 Share Posted January 29, 2002 I love that "The Twins" James, it's time for some more pics... How do you keep from working on it night and day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z Turbo Posted January 29, 2002 Share Posted January 29, 2002 How do I keep from working on it??? HMMMM! Wife, daughter, money, school...etc. Actually, I am being anal this time around about everything. I told myself I wanted everything the way it should be the 1st time. The engine is complete minus my 10mm Magnecore wires. I also have to run the exhaust which is partially complete. I have to mod my tranny mount for the exhaust to better clear. I just finished installing my 6pt cage and fabbing my 14.7Gallon aluminum fuel cell. I also installed all my new vinyl and carpet that I had purchased from Classic Datsun a few years back. What else??? My K&N filters will finally be here this Thursday from 1month back order from Summit along with my Lokar throttly cable kit. So close I can taste it! I have also completed my wide band unit for Electromotive that uses the 5-wire NTK sensor. With the help of my Dad and TimZ we modded the circuit to give an output of 0-1V. I will test it this weekend. So close, yet so far away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clint78z Posted January 29, 2002 Share Posted January 29, 2002 While alot of the cars you stated I absolutely drool over. While these tasty parts and pieces that I could not afford have big potential, they don't nessarly kick out the HP. The facts are in the dyno sheets, and time slips (preferrably both to give a good indication). For example I know a decent amount about EFI. However if I bought everything TimZ and duplicated it, then was told tune tune it myself. The outcome would probably that I would probably get less power or might even end up with a blown motor. It takes quite a bit of knowledge and time to tune a motor on the edge. Hopfully one day I will get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyMIz Posted January 29, 2002 Author Share Posted January 29, 2002 Thanks i just see so many cars making huge amounts of power and i'd like to be there someday.I'd also like to think there isn't a limit to how much can come out of a L28.I have to say 400hp would make me a happy camper for about a uear then i'd be just wanting more.I'd love to have tim's car it is soooooo nice but i eventually will want more(the worse drug in the world)I guess i'll just have to push the limits if i get there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Azel Posted February 2, 2002 Share Posted February 2, 2002 Scotty, I feel ya man. The thirst for power can only be temporarily quenched. First it's 100rwhp, then 200, then 300 and so on. Before you know it, you'll realize that you have more horses under your hood than some of the ricer street racing teams have altogether and it still ISN'T enough. I've already succumbed to the dark forces of cubic inches and PSI. Heck I'm barely dropping my motor in and I've already laid out plans for a another project Z. With guys like Scottie, Ron Jones, TimZ making so much progress it motivates me to create my very own top-notch Z. I'll post pics of my progress on the L28ET swap. Currently trying to get my hands on some 240sx pistons and the LD28 crank. Body's sanded down ready for a fresh coat of paint. Hopefully I'll have the car running by spring, Hopefully... When I'm done with this "restoration" Z, the next project Z commences and let's just say it'll have a few heads turning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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