MSA's rising rate pressure reg. worth a damn?

[Guest 240hybrid]

I was wondering, anyone used this "PERFORMANCE RISING RATE FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR" offered by MSA? Im just curious, anyone put this on a 280zxt putting out roughly 400 at crank? Is it any good and is there a noticable difference from it and a stock regulator off a 75 280z that I have now, used on this 280zxt setup? For the $210.00 they want for it, the thing better do something for a car. Seems like it might not be worth the cost to benefit ratio. I just want to know if it would be worth it for their price to install on my 240 when I'm ready to.

[mxs666]

I have a brand new one never used. i got it thinking i was going to do a t3/t4 hybrid set up and then decided to go with the rb/tt.

 

if you want it let me know.

 

Later - Michael

[Guest 240hybrid]

yeah i might be interested.

[Guest 240hybrid]

still curious if anyones used this on their setup?

[Len]

I believe Cody mentioned to me he used a RRFPR like the cartech one in MSA. When he had stock injectors in his Z. That way you could squeeze out as much gas as possible with stock injectors.

[threeZguy]

I put one on my 84t that has a T3/T4 cuz I was running out of fuel at about 9-10 psi with the stock injectors. With the RRFPR I am able to take it up to 13-14 psi now. Have to be careful when setting it up tho, I was able to get over 100 psi fuel pressure with it. This is on a stock motor.

 

......chris

[threeZguy]

Oh yeah, one more thing. You have to have a fuel pressure gauge to able to tune it. Of course MSA didn't mention this when I spoke with them. I ended up getting the electric Auto Meter one that mounts in the the cockpit. $189.00(ouch), but I didn't want any fuel lines coming into the cockpit. Also I had to get an extra inline fuel pump, cuz the stock one only is good up to 65 psi, and the RRFPR is a 4:1, and I needed about 80 psi fp to get up the 14 psi I wanted. I've been running it for almost a year now with no problems. Hope this helps.

 

........chris

[Guest 240hybrid]

I decided to consult Jim Thompson, and he said not to use this for my particular setup. I'm positive he knows what hes talking about too. So I'm gonna go with him and leave it alone. He knows what hes doing.

[Len]

Chris

Question; using your fuel pressure gauge. What in your estimate did you notice your injectors "maxing out" (at that 80psi you mentioned?). Or no longer anymore improvement in fuel output?

Also did you have a noticable improvement to the 65 psi. with your stock fuel pump?

Thanks

Len

[threeZguy]

Len

When I first installed the T3/T4(.63 AR turbine .60 AR comp. P trim wheel, by the way) there was a definite improvement from 10 psi with stock turbo to 10 psi with the T3/T4 at 65 psi. I couldn't turn the RRFPR past that. So I called Corky Bell(since these are Cartech units) and he said I was maxing out the stock fuel pump.(FSM verified this) So I put an inline Pierburg fuel pump in and was able to bury my guage which goes to 100 psi.(not on purpose tho)At this point I was only able to get 14 psi boost before I started feeling the "surging" effect, even though I could get the fuel pressure above 80 psi, which I figured was my stock injectors maxing out. I ran like this for while till I starting having some problems with erratic idling and "missing" when at cruising speeds. Since it had been a while that a tuneup was done, thru in some new plugs(found some Denso Iridiums for $30 on Ebay) cap & rotor. First time I took it out I hit 15 psi boost with no surging, spooled alot quicker too. So now I think that plugs were holding me back on raising boost, and not fuel. During the interm I had purchased a SDS EIC to add more fuel.(still havn't installed till I get the idle & missing issue fixed)I havn't really had a chance to experiment if I can get higher than 15 psi with the stock injectors tho.(have 2 speeding tickets in 11 months, can't afford to get another one, at least for 1 more month) Funny thing is at WOT car has no problems. Plz excuse my babbling, hope this answered your questions. If not, let me know and I'll try not to be so long winded next time.

 

.........chris

[Len]

Hey thanks for babbling your giving out much needed information!

Hmmmm. So you went with a larger turbo than stock ran it 10 psi. Which sounds like the same psi you ran your stock turbo so that in its self was an improvement! Then you ran your new t3/t4 up to 14 psi. before surging. But you think the surging was caused from bad plugs? You then installed new plugs and it ran great to 15 psi with stock injectors. Do you have a A/F gauge if so what did it show?

Also this may be stupid but what is a "FSM verified this" and also you bought a "SDS EIC" is that what you call a SDS fuel control systum? Hey if you install that; you could just go with larger injectors and dial them in to work for the duty cycle you need!

So you figure you really didn't need to get the fuel fuel pump to max out your injectors after all? Or are your saying you needed that xtra 15 psi (from 65psi stock fuel pump to 80psi. with the new fuel pump).

Oh yea; did you explain to the officer why you were speeding was that you were doing scientific research for members of HybridZ ! Hey I just know you'd get off that way (or get put in jail!). Now I babbling!

[threeZguy]

Len

I didn't have an A/F guage at the time. I have a Dawes now, but having some problems getting to work right. I think my voltage is dropping to low for the gauge to read right, or I have a wiring issue.(not grounded correctly)I needed the Pierburg to get above 10 psi. I was definitely maxing out the stock pump. FSM=factory service manual, which said that max fuel pressure was 65-70 psi for stock pump.

The SDS EIC I bought is 2 480cc injectors and a controller that is good for an extra 160 hp up to 22 psi. I plan on running about 20 psi when I get it in. I'm not sure if I'll need the RRFPR once the EIC is installed, as the extra injectors should solve my fuel problem. We'll see. You can check it out. SDS EIC

 

.....chris

[Len]

Chris

After reading about that SDS sys That way a person could have best of both worlds! There was another guy on Hybrid that was going to run secondary injectors on each intake port beside original injector. Haven't heard the final outcome on that project! Those extra injectors would work at boost and looks adjustable also. Might contact SDS and see if they would sell the mounts for the 2 injectors with controller and harness so I could possibly save some money by using a couple of my 370's

I have a Dawes A/F also. It was doing the same thing (not grounding or working very well)until I replaced my 02 sensor with a 4 wire sensor. Proper grounding is important with those gauges, with the 4 wire you are also using ground from the 02 intself. It works alot better (not as good at the the expensive wideband but at least gives alot better reading than before). I used the one for a Dodge Shadow about $70 bucks.

[fl327]

you ran 15psi on the hybrid turbo on stock injectors? man thats nuts, have you dynoed it, and do you know how high you are pushing the duty cycle? inquiring minds need to know. sounds great though, i had the same issues with my car recently, i was gettting stumbles, so i swapped out fpr, then i found out it was never fuel it was these bosch spark plugs, swapped those and fuel issue resolved. i once ran 100 psi on my injectors for two minutes, i thought it was way too much and didnt want to foul anything off, so i dropped it back down to 50, how does it run around town at 65? i run a bosch fuel pump from a 911 turbo and at 100 psi there was no stumbles, but i dont need that much, only running 10psi.

[threeZguy]

Len

Did ya get the A/F for the Shadow, or is the O2 for the Shadow. I have mine grounded to a distribution block from the battery I ran into the cockpit. I will try directly to the battery like they suggest. I haven't had any detonation yet, that I'm aware of. No dyno yet, I was planning on that after I put the SDS in, but I may have just have "old" injectors, car has 170,000 miles on it. I have an extra "almost" new set of injectors that I may put in once I get the exhaust smell out of my 77' so I have something else to drive. Hate to keep driving the Suburban. (wife doesn't like me taking her "car" all the time) I image I've been pushing injectors a bit hard tho and that could be part of the problem I'm having now.(I've hit 90-100 psi myself while setting it up.) I also replaced my fpr, it was old any ways, but that wasn't the problem either. Whats really bugging me now is that the problem started after I did a bunch of things.(new clutch, A/F meter, put pos. & neg. distribution blocks in cockpit, few other things) Funny thing is the car seems to run okay when its dry and 30 degrees or below outside now, really acts up when its wet and warmer. Thats why I think I may an have an electrical issue. I really need to pull the plugs and see what they look like. But on the 84 300's, takes over 1 1/2 hours and have to take half of the top of the engine off to get to them. The temps here are supposed to be a little warmer next few days, so I'll try then.

 

......chris

[Len]

I followed Dawes directions if you don't get a good reading. Buy a 02 sensor for a Dodge Shadow at auto parts store. Which I did. It worked alot better.

I've been reading the posts on wideband in AAC Valve question and went on one of the sites mentioned and saw the wideband for around $135 (not including sensor which I expect is expensive). Read that thread seds some light on subject.

Eventually I would like to get a wideband newer type "2" when they come out. That would use bosch sensor. But in the meantime the 4 wire sensor works alot better that the old singlewire. Read what Dawes said in his instructions. But first before spending buck. I just feel you need to be grounded real good directly on negative post (have good connection on 02 also) for any success. Then if that doesn't improve, and you don't want to wait for the new wideband then try the 4 wire 02. I had good luck with it.

Also looked on SDS website and when I get money ahead (after Christmas . I want to buy that EIC two injector setup. Need to ask if my 370's would work to replace the 480's they offer. Could maybe save a little money.

Hey I wish we talked earlier before you bought. Then we could of done a group buy at a reduced price!

 

Good Luck Chris

[BLKMGK]

Sensor is around $135 - the controller box is a bit more than that - something over $200 if I recall. The new type 2 box? Why would you want the Bosch sensor? It's slower and more expensive! Nice to have the option but the Type 1.5 box using the NTK sensor is what I'd want.

 

[Edit - kit is in the $135 range, assembled is what's more.]

[threeZguy]

Thanks Len, I'll give it try and let ya know what happens. I've been following Tech edge stuff for over a year, was even on their waiting list when they stopped production last May. Sent me an email when they started up again in August, but decided to hold off. Think I may go for the 1.5 unit for my 80'zx when its done.(this will be my Vette,Viper eater) Since my 84' is my daily driver, just wanted a system to get me in the "safe" range for everyday driving. Thats why the Dawes looked good. After I install the SDS, I'll be finished with going for more power on it. I also need to get my 77' finished so I can do some autocrossing in this summer. So many mouths to feed. (not including the wife and kids)

 

....chris

[Len]

I just know cash flow wise when they release the 2 version (possibly in Feb.) my wallet hopefully will recover from Christmas! Also the 2 version from the info I read can use either sensor. From reading the "AAC valve question"thread I got the idea it was hard to find and buy the NTK sensor. Where Bosch wasen't. How are you reading the prices on the Tecedge website? What is the interchange rate between Azzie dollars and American?

[Len]

Chris

Just noticed your last reply when I posted my previous reply.AND "I hear and agree with your last statement" In fact I'm living it as we speak!