Converting From Muncie to T5...What can I still use?

[Dan Juday]

Slow up, Tbro. Don't try to force it together with the tranny bolts. Get a clutch alignment tool. They're cheap and can be had at any decent auto parts house. You might think you can eyeball it but that rearly works, never worked for me. It's just a plastic replica of the input shaft from your T5. Put it through the clutch disk and then into the pilot bearing and then, making sure it is in straight, tighten down the pressure plate bolts. Make sure you tighten in a cross pattern like lug nuts and torque them to the specs. Then mate the tranny to the block with human force only. It can often take several trys untill everything lines up. When it does the tranny will slide home. Then get the bolts in it.

 

Also, double check the i.d. on the pilot bearing. If it is just a tiny bit smaller than the one for the T5 you'll never get it together.

[Guest TBroZ]

Yes, I was just given the same advice about the clutch alignment tool from a friend...now ya tell me . I suppose if I ever got a shop manual, I wouldn't have to depend on message boards for my auto mechanic's education. You all have been very helpful though. And yes, I wasn't going to force anything, that's why I stopped. I'm pulling it out and starting over.

 

And I think that's another problem...the pilot bearing. I will check the ID on it. I put the new one for the T5 (that I hadn't installed) on the old Saginaw, and it fit very easily. In other words, I think the Saginaw tip could have been 0.1 mm larger diameter and still fit easily. I think the T5 imput shaft tip is 0.1 mm larger than the Saginaw, and the Saginaw pilot bearing is just too small. That may account for that last 0.75" that the trans wouldn't go in that I spoke of earlier. Eisch!

 

I'm learning like freakin' crazy though!

 

TK

[Guest greimann]

.... I suppose if I ever got a shop manual' date=' I wouldn't have to depend on message boards for my auto mechanic's education.

 

TK[/quote']

 

Dude, you should run out right now and get a Haynes manual or factory shop manual for the vehicles that you are combining parts from. There are a lot of steps in those manuals that we are not covering here that are very important. Did you locktite those flywheel bolts? What torque value did you tighten them to? We just cover some unique problems that come up but the basics are up to you !

 

 

P.S. The bleed line is the one with the bleed nipple in the end of it. The other one has a coupling fitting for the line that runs to the master cylinder.

[Guest TBroZ]

Did you locktite those flywheel bolts? What torque value did you tighten them to? We just cover some unique problems that come up but the basics are up to you !

 

 

P.S. The bleed line is the one with the bleed nipple in the end of it. The other one has a coupling fitting for the line that runs to the master cylinder.

 

Locktite? No. Torque? "super tight". I know...not right. I'm redoing it all. I'll go buy some locktite, and a torque wrench. What is the flywheel torque supposed to be?

 

BTW, my hydraulic lines look identical (including the fittings) from what I saw with the exception that one has a nipple (loose) screwed on the end. What would one do if it came/was taken off? How would one know the diff. then?

[Guest TBroZ]

I found this (among others) on the web - for torque values:

http://www.hotrodshack.com/torque_settings.htm

 

TK

[Guest greimann]

 

BTW' date=' my hydraulic lines look identical (including the fittings) from what I saw with the exception that one has a nipple (loose) screwed on the end. What would one do if it came/was taken off? How would one know the diff. then?[/quote']

 

Both hoses ARE identical. The fittings are the only things that establish function.

[Guest TBroZ]

I guess I was thinking there might some type of internal difference. Earlier I called the tech line for the TO bearing people, and he confirmed that there is no difference. greimann, I think yours has unique fittings...mine are the same. The point being that it doesn't matter which of the two lines I connect the master cylinder to, as long as it's the bottom one. The guy said that in the future (the next couple months) they will be making an entirely unique line for the bleed line.

[Guest TBroZ]

Boy, that pilot bearing was a bitch to get out. The puller I rented from Kragen didn't cut it. Thanks Miles for the tip to drill. I ended up making about 5 drillings into it and knocking it out piece by piece. Fortunately, it's very soft metal.

[Guest TBroZ]

Okay, so major progress on the trans...it's in.

 

So with the Wilwood master cylinder, the instructions are very basic and generalized. Any tips one can give for installing it? greimann, I noticed you used the smaller reservoir...any reason? There are instructions on how to adjust the travel in the clutch pedal, so I think I'll be okay there.

 

Which nipple is the one for the end of the bleed line? I've been given several, but they are all open. I guess I'm expecting one with some type of valve. There is one with the inside hole on the side.

 

Terry

[Guest greimann]

Be sure to follow the instructions about using a GENTLE amount of heat to install the reservoir. I used a heat gun very carefully. I used the small reservoir because that is what is needed for a clutch application. The large one is for brake service.

 

The nipple for the bleed line looks kinda like this:

 

 

The other one with the taper on both ends is the coupler for the main line. The gold one with the square threads on one end and taper on the other end is not used.

[Guest TBroZ]

greimann, I saw that suggestion to heat the reservoir in the instructions...not possessing a heat gun (or blow dryer!), I was thinking I'd immerse it in boiling water for 30 seconds...s'alright?

[Guest greimann]

I'm not sure about boiling water for 30 seconds. It will hard to predict the final temperature of the plastic, and if you over do it and distort the reservoir, you are screwed. Using a borrowed blow dryer would be a safer method because you can't over heat it with that. Just blow dry on high for 3 or 4 minutes should be sufficient. Styling gel is optional If not that, use very hot tap water and soak for a while.

[Guest TBroZ]

So everything's in, 'cept the driveshaft...getting that tomorrow after work. I bleed the clutch line, but the clutch pedal still felt very easy. I'm expecting some resistance as it engages. Shouldn't I even with the hydraulic TO? Fired it up without the driveshaft. I noticed a couple things. The transmission output shaft spins in neutral, and it grinds going into reverse. I'm wondering if this is normal considering there's no driveshaft to stop the output shaft from spinning...some very slight engagement normal...just enough to spin the shaft? If so, that would explain why it grinds trying to go into reverse...it's trying to reverse the direction of the already spinning shaft. If I turn of the car, put it in reverse, then turn it back on, the output shaft turns the opposite direction as it should.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Terry

[Miles]

Terry

 

Without the drive shaft installed the trans will spin and you will grind gears when you try to shift. Once you get the driveline in and the car on the gound it should shift normally. I had this same experience last year and thought for sure I had either installed the clutch disk backwards or had a problem with the master cylinder.

 

Miles

[Dan Juday]

Sounds normal. Can you shift through the forward gears without grinding? You said it grinds going into reverse. Can you get it in or is the grinding too bad to get it into gear?

[Guest TBroZ]

Oh thanks...hopefully I'm okay. Yes, I can shift through the forward gears without grinding...and without the clutch!!! Which kind of makes sense, there's no load whatever...I guess. No, I didn't try too hard to shift it into reverse...probably could have jammed it in, but with that brand new tranny, I just do not want to damage anything.

 

I should say again that the pedal feels very easy though...very little pressure resistance. Is there less resistance with the hydraulic TO vs. the slave cylinder set up? My concern is that once I get the drive shaft in, it'll grind trying to go into first.

 

Terry

[Guest greimann]

Provided you have the system completely bled, the pedal action should give you some feedback as to the resistance of the pressure plate as it disengages, but, the Centerforce I (one) will give you a close to stock feel and since there is no throw out arm and other monkey motion of the original components, there is less total resistance in the system. This makes for a very smooth clutch engagement and a real pleasure to drive. A brand new system like you have that was installed dry will require extra care to bleed all the air out. A Mityvac is a real help in this instance. But any way you do it, give bleeding another shot to be sure.

[Guest TBroZ]

I think I will give it another bleed session. I had my roommate help me. I told him to pump the pedal (3-4 times) and hold it down, I would then open the end fitting. The first cycle was air. The second and third produced fluid with bubbles, the forth and fifth produced fluid without bubbles, so that was it. I was surprised to have so little air.

[Guest greimann]

I think you need to refine the bleeding procedure. The proper sequence should be:

 

• Open bleed screw
  Press pedal down and hold
  Close bleed
  Let pedal up
  repeat until fluid is air free
  

 

This process is intended to pump air out of the system on the down stroke. and draw in fluid from the reservoir on the up stroke. If you mix it up, you could draw air in from the bleeder on the up stroke.

[Guest TBroZ]

Okay, I'll try it that way. I did it according to the directions supplied with the kit: "Pump pedal 3 or 4 times, hold down on pedal and open bleeder screw on bearing bleeder line..."