Heavy Z Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 No solenoid working or starter either(tested them, they're fine) - just a click from this relay (located on right side of passenger leg area). What is it, where do I get one, could it be the problem? Looks like a low to high voltage relay to me, but my local parts shop had no clue how to find one or whether it was chevy or datsun. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deMideon Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Well in my '73 240Z it's an accessory solinoid, and mine is not funtional so, if that is what it is, then no it probably isn't causing the problem. The questions are, What year is your Z, and what colors are the wires on the other side of the plug? I should be able to look it up for you on the wiring diagram. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Damn these problems anyway! Basically, any good hot wire applied to the high side of the starter solenoid will crank the engine if all is well and you can deduce from there. The ignition switch simply applies the required voltage straight from the battery to the solenoid and thats it. There is no reason to have a relay in the starting circuit as far as I know (but then, I am not Japanese). Assuming what I say is valid and what you say is valid, there is no problem, however, I suspect your ignition swich is the culprit here or, some other associated switch in line with the circuit such as the transmission shifting lever mechanisim (which has an ignition associated switch there also to prevent starting while in any position except Park). Toyota has even introduced another one found on the steering column near the firewall. Good luck.....LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Z Posted March 31, 2003 Author Share Posted March 31, 2003 Thanks both of you for the help. I've got a short somewhere, now comes the fun part of tracking it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 I am wondering if you know the difference between a short and an open? If this is a case of nothing happening when you turn the key then it is more likely an open circuit, meaning, contact is not being made in that part of the ignition circuit. This then would be faulty switch contacts in the ign. switch, "Park" switch etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Have you checked your connections to the starter from the battery? Also are you sure the battery is good and charged(above 12.0V)? I would check your wires for corrosion and ohm them out. Or are you sure its a short to ground? Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deMideon Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 The easiest way (for me anyway!) to track down things like this is to get a light probe. Which has a sharp end to pierce a wire (slightly), a light on it and a wire to go to ground. You can then, using a wiring diagram, and the probe, figure out what happened.In my Z 90% of my problem where because of the fuse block or the wireing the previous owner did. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Z Posted March 31, 2003 Author Share Posted March 31, 2003 Thanks for the replies, let me go into more detail: All I hear is a click in the solenoid, and my voltmeter dips all the way to -45 amps. This big drop makes me think it's a short. Yesterday the car started 3 times, then the starter quit again. I checked the low power side of the solenoid, it's getting power. I also checked the lead from the battery and the ignition switch which is fine. I also noticed that when my key was in the run position there was no juice going to the coil - maybe this is due to the msd, maybe this is part of the short. Anyway, just for the heck of it I tried to fire it up this morning - it started without any problems and my voltmeter only dropped to about -10 amps this time. I don't want to drive it because I'm afraid the starter will leave me stranded. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Remove the starter, take it to the local auto parts store and get it checked. Sometimes when they go bad they just draw alot of amps and work only some of the time. Mine just went out like this. It would start with the battery charger and the battery because it now took 19 volts to turn the starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 The easiest way (for me anyway!) to track down things like this is to get a light probe. Which has a sharp end to pierce a wire (slightly), a light on it and a wire to go to ground. You can then, using a wiring diagram, and the probe, figure out what happened.In my Z 90% of my problem where because of the fuse block or the wireing the previous owner did. Good luck! Although this is a very quick and easy way to check for power in a wire, you should remember to re-seal the puncture you make in the wire, otherwise it begins to corrode at that point, which down the road will cause you many a headache. I usually use liquid tape, with some regular electrical tape over that. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Z Posted March 31, 2003 Author Share Posted March 31, 2003 I already had the starter checked and it is ok. This is frustrating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Z Posted April 1, 2003 Author Share Posted April 1, 2003 Update - the car started when I got home, began checking wiring/start car again, etc - about 10 times with no sign of what was wrong. So, I check it one last time and it starts. Five minutes later I try again and theres NOTHING but the click of my solenoid and my amp guage pegs at -45. Could the MSD box be causing this sort of trouble? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 Have you checked your connections to the starter from the battery? Also are you sure the battery is good and charged(above 12.0V)? I would check your wires for corrosion and ohm them out. It sounds to me like it is just a loose wire. How new are the battery cables? Besure to clean all the connections and reconnect them. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Z Posted April 1, 2003 Author Share Posted April 1, 2003 Battery is new and is fully charged. Thanks man, I'll keep looking for the illusive loose wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72zcar Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 had a dude over here with the amp gauge going way to the left and a click... it turned out to be the ground cable going from the battery to the started bolt..it was loose at the starter bolt. so check your negitive cable at the starter bolt... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Boy! You better take that back! You mean to tell me that when you removed the starter at the beginning of things you didn't notice the nut was loose? (Or was it)? Damn, sounds like something I would do, but I'm 74 and can get out of it whereas you can't.....LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 had a dude over here with the amp gauge going way to the left and a click... it turned out to be the ground cable going from the battery to the started bolt..it was loose at the starter bolt. so check your negitive cable at the starter bolt... Who entered that dastardly remark about is.....is? I am trying to forget! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Man, I'm getting my posts mixed up. Anyway, Start and not start eh? Take the battery cables off and scrape them to the metal (both the posts and inside both clamps) grease those puppys and clamp them back down. Then go to the other ends of the big cables and make sure the metal connectors are crimped into the cables themselvs. (You can't trust aftermarket stuff very far). On second thought, I think you better pull both cables clear of the car to do this.....LOL. Now, if you have a solid 12v to the solenoid and it is pulling up inside and making contact with the two heavy terminals inside there and the starter is good it has to crank. However, if it does not, then I would suggest touching a hot wire from battery + to the small terminal of the solenoid. If this works then you have an intermittent voltage being applied to the solenoid where sometimes it works and sometimes it dosent. It has started before, so the starter has to be good but this does not prove a good solenoid at all, but the hot wire from the battery will. As I said, if the hot wire works every time, look to the ign switch and etc. If the hot wire from the battery + does not work every time then the solonoid is intermittent and therefore faulty. If the solonoid is proven faulty by this method and you are under warranty then you will have to go back to the store and show the guy what you have found. You can't see it but it's actions prove it's bad. (It had better not pull up every time at the store is all I can say).....LOL. Have you tried prayer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Heavy Z; You have a real head shaker there! Armatures are usually the firet thing that go bad with any eletric motor. When they go they usually go short. This may be the case here altho' I have never talked to anyone who has experienced a car starter acting this way. The armature is either good or fully shot (It burns itself out at once). So let's eliminate the armature. -45v when it just clicks and -10v when it starts and runs? Maby an intermittent alternator diode shorting to ground there? Disconnect all wires from the alternator and see what happens! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Z Posted April 2, 2003 Author Share Posted April 2, 2003 SUCCESS AT LAST! I found a bosch switch online that boosts the current to the solenoid - problem solved. In these old cars I've been told that excessive resistance can build up, and this switch makes sure the solenoid power is up to the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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