Mudge Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 Holley system I've bought for my Z and the Tweecer I bought for the Mustang is that I can hook a laptop in, hook the laptop up to my network and modem and allow a tech to SEE what I'm doing to the car, or better yet LET HIM TUNE IT REMOTELY for me! Nice! But you can do that with VNC or PC Anywhere also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 Al Grippo said on the yahoo MS forum that MS kits would be in stock all the time, at least that was the plan. So it sounded like to could buy the kit at any time without having to wait on group buys. I don't know for sure, just passing this on. He just posted this a couple days ago. I received my stuff from Grippo about a week or so ago. The rest of the stuff is coming from DigiKey sometime next month. One or two pieces were on back order, so I told them to wait for a complete order before sending the parts. I'll start assembling my megasquirt this summer. I haven't decided whether to convert my V8 in the truck from the 750 double pumper to FI, or to use it on the ZXT engine and transplant it into my other 240? Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 Like Mudge said, I'm a nerd, so I etched a MS board today. It turned out really nice. I'll take a couple pictures of it. I have never tried etching my own PCB so I thought it would be cool. Get to play with chemicals and such. My boss gave me some expensive toner tranfer paper and we already had etchant. So for $10 I will have to MS boards. Then I have to see if i can order the microprocessor and fets from bowling and grippo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 Like Mudge said, I'm a nerd, so I etched a MS board today. It turned out really nice. I'll take a couple pictures of it. I have never tried etching my own PCB so I thought it would be cool. Get to play with chemicals and such. My boss gave me some expensive toner tranfer paper and we already had etchant. So for $10 I will have to MS boards. Then I have to see if i can order the microprocessor and fets from bowling and grippo. Is that legal? Did you get permission from Bowling and Grippo, or is this an accepted practice? Just curious. Man, you are an e-geek!!! Printing your own boards!! cool! Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 It is all "open source" you can build it any way you like. I dont know if they will give you a pre-programmed processor or if you need the Willet programmer though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 (Megasquirt comes with a programmed chip. You only need the Willette programmer - boutght that too - if you need to totally reflash the chip with a software update that isn't able to be loaded with the bootloader.) I haven't gotten around to assembling the megasquirt. Actually, my dad is getting ready to start doing that for me (retired Elec. Engineer/hands on guy). It doesn't look that hard. I've done some electronics assembly and I'd say if anyone has soldered before, follows the "deployment guide" written by John De Armond (see the files / Documents folder on the Yahoo group - after you register) you'll be fine. My dad finished the Megasquirt stimulator board (for checking out the Megasquirt after you build it). I put him off doing the Megasquirt until he builds the DIY WB-O2 unit and display. I need that first, as I'm starting out with a Holley 700cfm TBI 4D system and want to use the WB O2 to tune the 4D computer first. Adapting the Megasquirt to the Holley TBI is not plug and play - it will take some tweaks (using the dual table code, adapting the Megasquirt IAC output for the Holley's stepper motor IAC). The Holley Commander 950 is enticing, as it has all I'd think I'd want. But $900 is too rich for me, especially if the MegaSquirt works out for me and the MegaJolt effort comes out with a better option (I don't want to depend on a JY Ford EDIS ignition module that's hard to find). Simple Digital Systems unit is neat and fairly cheap. But I really WANT laptop control. I have ZERO experience using or tuning these things. But I look forward to not dealing with carbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 (Megasquirt comes with a programmed chip. You only need the Willette programmer - boutght that too - if you need to totally reflash the chip with a software update that isn't able to be loaded with the bootloader.) Right, but since he made his own board - does he have access to the pre programed chip or would that be a special request, that was what I'm not sure of. Simple Digital Systems unit is neat and fairly cheap. But I really WANT laptop control. Heck yeah, I'm not programming maps on a fiddly diddly LCD screen with arrows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 The MS FAQ says you can make your own boards, if you have a board house make a run they like to know on the group so they know what is floating around. The FAQ also says if you want to build the boards and ebay them that is up to you. OF course I am just doing it for me, so I checked it out first before stepping on anyones toes. Hey Pete, I might have to get you to program me a chip. Mail it to you with some bucks and have you mail it back programmed. If your willing of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 Here it is, chemicals are cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 Righthand picture shows copper board after I applied the toner tranfer paper and screwed up. Lefthand is the etched pcb ready to drill and populate the components. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 Nice boards, I shudder to think of the carcinogens though - here in Silly-con Valley cancer rates are high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zline Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 SDS is good, I'd go with MicroTech MTX8 or Accel because they're easy to program so it wont take long for someone familiar with the software to establish a basemap for the car, then take it to a dyno make 10-20 pulls and you'll be good to go with a perfect map for your application Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 I suppose that may be an advantage to open loop tuning, 6 pulls and I was "done." I made really no power after my 3rd pull, had 50# TQ by pull #2, AF was done almost completely on my first flash. Timing for driveability, takes some more work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zline Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Yeah, but closed loop provides 100000x times the advantage and control however. Each has their plus and minus. Im going to run a haltec E6k on my highcomp 3.1 because it provides everything i need and more, it can also control boost if i ever decide to switch to lowcomp turbo (which will be like never) Daniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 I'm running an AEM on a 2JZGTE and will be running it on a SBC in the future - they have on PNP for the Ford 5.0 already and it's being used on a 351W and 460 too. It has about as many options as a Motec if not more, trac control in the next release, and cost $1400 or so complete. To that I've added some sensors (including EGT) and an FJO W/B. AEM just came out with what ought to be an affordable W/B setup too using an affordable Bosch sensor. There have been some bugs in the system which AEM is stomping as quick as they can, the next release ought to be out soon (I beta for them). The datalogging and analysis package is also damned good with a VERY nicemath library function for you wiz kids I'm not sure it would work on an L28's stock electronics but you could setup a trigger wheel easily enough or use one from another application. You could use 6 coils and fire waste-fire if you wanted, in fact I'll be switching to LS1 coils on my Supra soon. I'd list the features but I'd take a page or so and would probably forget some More info at http://www.aempower.com/bbs or shoot me a note and I'll try to answer the questions. The Supra is my daily and has gone 11.4@124 so far, a friend is deep into the 10s with his using an AEM ECU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Yeah, but closed loop provides 100000x times the advantage and control however Huh? Lets see, I could run leaner than stoich and thushly was able to yank more MPG out of the car than most, and the car does what I WANT every second of its lifespan versus closed loop which changes (in some ways absolutely 'good'). I'm not seeing this 100000x difference. I suggest to most by and large to stay closed loop, many large cam folks run open loop only say 1200 RPM and lower, I had my reasons for going open loop and they largely had to do with the speed of tuning factor which was mostly out of my control without ditching my dyno date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zline Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 I like closed loop, i've dealt with it on numerous turbo motors and just liked it more. The 1000000x difference thing WAS the change...I dont want to have to pull over to adapt to whats going on you know what I mean? Our situations are also really really different, I have access to dynos whenever I want -- if there is open time i can jump on, if not then i gotta wait like everyone else, but speed of tuning isnt a factor for me so that bonus of open loop in MY situation is negated. E6K = WIN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 I never changed a thing on my tune once all was said and done and drove it daily to work, to the gym, to the tracks I hit and so on. I ran as lean as 15.1:1 but know someone who went 15.2:1, he just gave up more timing. Again I do agree that closed loop is the way to stay for most people, but with my own experience I do not believe for a second closed loop is exponentially better somehow. The only adjustment my car ever needed was done via the MAF. Open loop = set it and forget it, no worries about minute exaust leaks that go undiscovered for a week, and again better gas mileage in the right hands. As for dyno time, it runs me $100 an hour, so 8 hour tuning sessions like some people do aren't in the cards for me. Wideband setup of my own would be very nice to have someday though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Umm, why are you limiting yourself to Stoich closed loop? I can run whatever A/F I want closed loop. The hardest part of closed loop for me since I went to a single turbo and changed the location of the O2 is adjusting the feedback loop so that it's smooth and doesn't "hunt". W/Bs have gotten much cheaper, running without one is nus these days. I also run FAR leaner than 15:1 at times, it depends on the situaiton. Idle is best done richer and cruise you can lean till it begins to lose power or pop. I run something like 50 degrees of timing during some light load cruise too - programmable EFI rox Along with the W/B closed loop (WOT under boost if I want BTW) I also get VSS based boost control, VSS based 2-step, full seuqential, can remove the distributor, and will have accel based traction control within a month or so. The AEM is pretty incredible for the price IMO. I look forward to buying at least one more and installing it on the Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 A stock Z28 PCM will ONLY do stoich closed loop, unless I screw up the BLMs, which is not wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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