grumpyvette Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 wtexasZ you know damn well what I ment, any fool knows the 5500 stall converter does not need to reach 5500rpm to move the car, but Im sure you will also admit that the first time you forget and get on the gas even alittle hard while useing stret tires while comming off a light your going to chirp those tires a whole lot worse than a car with a 3500rpm stall converter. and stop and go traffic will be miserable with a converter speed that high, Ive got a 3500rpm stall converter in my vette, and even thats a TOTAL P.I.T.A . in 5mph bumper to bumper traffic we all get into at times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 You were the one that brought up the 500 horsepower 383 and its torque. If you get on the gas a little hard with it, whats going to happen. How's that 383 going to be in stop and go traffic with that big overlap cam in it. Motors like that aren't made to be daily drivers. If it's a daily driver you want, then get a GM crate engine not a 500 horse 383. Take that vette to the drag strip and I'll leave you setting at the starting line with that 3500 converter if our engines are any where near the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 There's this pedal on the right that we have to learn how to not use as an on/off switch . Seriously though, I'd rather deal with too much torque at low rpm (doubt that'll be a problem with 60 degrees of overlap). 60 degrees of overlap isn't that much for a 406 though. 57 degrees in my 331 is about the limit I'd want on the street though. I prefer a clutch. But with a 3.27:1 first and a 3.7:1 rear and 26" tires, I may just decide to start using 2nd to take off. Or build a nonlinear throttle cable to throttle lever cam so that throttle opening is slower at first. I had somebody run my engine (close to what Joe Verna is talking about) through Engine Analyzer 3.0. The low end difference between Desktop Dyno 2K and it was considerable: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/pparaska/image/406_dd2000_EA30_TQcompare.gif FWIW, these were the inputs: 406, 4.155" bore, 3.75" stroke 6" rods 15cc D-dished pistons Zero deck height 65cc chamber Canfield 195cc heads (2.055/1.60 valves): lift_int_exh(28"H2O) .100__72__53 .200_145_107 .300_201_143 .400_247_175 .500_258_190 .600_259_200 Crane solid lifter cam, PN 114681: 280/288 adv duration, 112 LSA, 111 ICL 244/252 @.050 duration .518/.536 total lift IVO=29 IVC=71 EVO=77 EVC=31 1.5:1 rockers Victor Jr. 700 cfm Holley Pro-jection 1-5/8" block huggers, 2.5" duals, X-pipe, Dynomax Hemi Super Turbo mufflers (FWIW, I'm going with Canfield 215cc heads, which MAY kill a bit of low rpm torque, but they flow 10% more for the 10% higher port volume, so velocity ought to be near the same) Here's a thread related to this: http://www.chevytalk.org/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB64&Number=371427 This seems to be pretty typical - DD 2K is optimistic below 3500 rpm or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 pete, install that crane #114681 6 degrees retarded and look at the results, I think youll be better off in that youll loose a little wheel spin tq but gain a little higher rpm pull! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 I don't have a two-piece timing cover for nothing! Will do. Funny, I'm sitting here worrying about having a soft low end and you're telling me to retard it 6 degrees! I basically have no idea of what this car will be like with the 406. If too soft with the 6 deg retard, I can always advance from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 pete think about it a second.....a ZO6 corvette has 405 hp and weighs about 400lbs more than your (Z) should weigh, now a ZO6 can run mid 12s in a 1/4 mile and hit 160mph and has much larger tires than you can fit in a (Z) wheel well, with your extra 75hp and lighter weight TRACTION , not LACK OF HP will likely be your problem look heres a ZO6 dyno,(do you think youll have problems running faster?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Oh, I'm with you grumpyvette! Not doubting anything you said so far on this at all. My ONLY concern about the 114681 cam is that my 2200 rpm cruise will have the engine in quite a "soft" range, below the torque curve. But even 200 lbft (from the EA3.0 analysis, with that cam degreed in as Crane recommends) at 2000 rpm seems pretty healthy. TRACTION, yes, that's already a problem. I'm hoping getting the static rear camber to zero and some very sticky DOT road race tires will help solve some of it. Of course, I can always just use less of the pedal, or a higher gear to stay out of the "fat" part of the admittedly flat torque curve. I'm still waiting for my 215cc Canfields to come in. They had to add temp sensor threaded holes (my request) and it took some new CNC programming. No matter, I want to get the TB Injection running on the 331 first anyway. Hopefully soon. Anyway, I'm glad I won't be the only one with this engine setup in a Z. We'll (Joe?, EvilDylan?, others?) be able to compare notes. I will start with the Vic Jr manifold and I'll post on the results. I have a Holley dual plane as well, which would take 20 hp or so off the peak, but it seems I won't be able to use that anyway. Well, without drag radials or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deMideon Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Pete, just wondering if you will be using a light flywheel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 I have the 16 lb GM nodular iron flywheel. To tell you the truth, it's a bit light and a heavier one would probably make it easier to move the car from a stop on a hill, etc. Just takes some getting used to. But with a lumpy cam, it means rev and slip the clutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deMideon Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 16 lbs steel!! Geez my Hays aluminum is 15 lbs. That's really light. I'm not worried. I have a very light flywheel on my L6 and am very used to driving it around. The instant acceleration and reduction of wheel spin are well worth the weird way I have to drive it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Yeah, it's a pretty nice piece. All hogged out on the back side. Nodular Iron is stronger than the iron most OE flywheels are made of. But I have a blowproof bellhousing just in case . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 ...But I have a blowproof bellhousing just in case ... Did you end up buying a Lakewood or something similar? I have been considering the Lakewood, but that is close to $300...I suppose my feet are worth it though Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 I bought a used up 327 with a Lakewood blowproof bellhousing and Muncie (trashed synchros) years ago. I kept the heads (on my Z), gave the short block to a friend, used the bellhousing. It was cheap for me. The blow proof adds weight, but down low and not farm from the CG. It also adds protection from having your feet cut from your legs if the clutch, PP or flywheel let go. $300 is cheap insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Pete, With a "0" block deck, I'm guessing this is due to your 6" Rods: that doesnt leave much for a Piston Comp.Height...around 1.151" or so. Are you comfortable w/that minimal of a PCH? BTW: I believe you will be much more satisfied w/this engine than your last one...much more torque down low-where a street engine really needs it! It will definately get sideways if/when you get on it....Yee Haw-WooHoo! Traction limited it will be. I'm just second guessing that minimal PCH...for longevity's sake that is. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 This is one of the reasons I like to build my own engines. I farmed this shortblock out and don't know whether the piston pin intersects the lower ring land or not. Anyway, it's a 1.125" compression height. Not really worried about it on the street, as the guy who builds these says that with the later pistons, the ring land and pin bore intersecting is not much of an issue. The rings are 1/8", 1/8", 1/16". I have a feeling with those widths you'd be able to package the rings all above the pin bore (probably the reason for those ring widths) I'll ask the builder to see if he remembers if the pin bore intersects the rings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grom111 Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 what would be the best all around engine for drift, drag, and most cost effective then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannji Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 Absolutley! I am building mine to be able to handle 6500 rpm for when I miss a shift but I want the peak to be around 5000 - 5500. I just want it to get there really fast! Then lots of cubic inches' date=' with the requisite good flowing heads, correct cam, etc. are in your future That or some form of turbo/supercharging![/quote'] Can one of the experts chime in here a little about extending the rpm range in an LS1.... which will be turboed? the quote above is exactly what I am looking for out of the LS1, just wondering how far from stock I would have to go on the basic engine to be able to hit 6000 rpms reliably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonsZ Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 I saw some Edlebrock engines which were rated to 6500rpm, they have a 30k 3 yr warrenty too. They have some there that have numbers much better then the ls1. Here is a link I looked at. (hope this is useful) http://edelbrock.com/automotive/index.html I saw 3yr/30k yesterday, but they say 2 yr/20k today, don't know why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maichor Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 Tannji- I'm not an expert, but . . . You don't have to do anything. Stock rev limiter is 6200 I believe. If you change the valvetrain, you can hit above 6500 all day long without floating valves. Search on it at LS1tech.com. Just about everyone agrees you are safe at 6K shifts on stock internals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHO-Z Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 Go the other way build a 302. Use a 327 block and 283 crank, the Camaro Z28 motor from 67 to 69. Chevy’s highest revving V8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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