Saving Pvt. Lynch

[dsommer]

Ok being a military vet I'm going to have to cut loose on this one. Please correct me (by all means, links etc) if I am wrong here.

 

Yesterday I heard that CBS is offering up a movie deal to Jessica Lynch and book deal too. When news first broke of the initial story the unit came under fire by Iraqi troops because the convoy took a wrong turn. As I recall her parents saying SHE took the wrong turn.

 

My question is, was she the lead vehicle in the convoy? Was she the one that lead the units members to their fate?

 

Now the military (pasting this from this link) http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/eo/20030602/en_tv_eo/11899)

 

The whole thing was "staged" there were no Iraqi troops in OR around the hospital!!! This whole story is pathetic

 

***Among the biggest revelations: Iraqi soldiers had abandoned their post at the hospital days before U.S. special forces moved in; American GIs were offered the use of a master key, but opted to kick the doors down Rambo-style instead; Lynch did not return fire at her Iraqi captors nor was she wounded or mistreated, as initially reported; and, perhaps the biggest surprise of all, days before her "rescue," Lynch's doctors attempted to take her via ambulance to American forces but were forced to turn back after being shot at.

 

An Iraqi doctor said Special Forces were shooting BLANKS and used a flash boom for that Hollywood drama.

 

We're really not supposed to talk about that subject," Lynch's father, Greg, told the Associated Press. "It's still an ongoing investigation and we can't talk about nothing like that."

 

Gee because you implicated your daughter with an earlier report that she took a wrong turn...

 

So what say you fellow HybridZ fans? If this comes out in book form or movie I promise you I will NOT spend a dime to see this despicable "ACT" of heroism.

 

Go to the link above (copy paste) see for yourself.

 

BTW I am a Gulf War vet (active Army), and am still in the Guard (16 years total service this fall) I do not discount the military actions we took in Afghanistan or Iraq. I support the decisions of our commander-in-chief and am thankful for those who serve our country day in day out from the lowest enlisted to the highest General, yes even poor Jessica my heart goes out to her and I am thankful she is alive, but the books and movie drama by the media glamorizing the rescue are CRAP!!!

 

Sorry about the rant.

 

ds

[Heavy Z]

You're right on about Lynch - Jessica has been locked up in a private Walter Reed hospital room with an around-the-clock security detail normally reserved for high brass to ensure that what happened to her as a prisoner of war remains inside her room. Medical personnel who look after her have been given the same keep-your-trap-shut treatment as the 507th troopers. Her cover story changes from amnesia to partial amnesia to more recently: "She's blocked just the ambush event."

 

Let's take it a step farter - does anyone remember who Rachel Corrie is? Jessica Lynch and Rachel Corrie could have passed for sisters. Two all-American blondes, Private Jessica Lynch, the soldier, was born in Palestine, West Virginia. Rachel Corrie, the activist, died in Israeli-occupied Palestine. Corrie was four years older than 19-year-old Lynch. Her body was crushed by an Israeli bulldozer in Gaza seven days before Lynch was taken into Iraqi custody on March 23. Before she went to Iraq, Lynch organised a pen-pal programme with a local kindergarten. Before Corrie left for Gaza, she organised a pen-pal programme between kids in her hometown of Olympia, Washington, and children in Rafah.

 

Lynch went to Iraq as a soldier loyal to her government. Corrie went to Gaza to oppose the actions of her government. As a US citizen, she believed she had a special responsibility to defend Palestinians against US-built weapons, purchased with US aid to Israel. In letters home, she described how fresh water was being diverted from Gaza to Israeli settlements, how death was more normal than life. "This is what we pay for here," she wrote.

 

Believing her fluorescent orange jacket would serve as armor, Corrie stood in front of bulldozers, slept beside wells and escorted children to school. For two hours she stood in front of that bulldozer, and when that Israeli driver looked at Corrie's orange jacket and pressed the accelerator, her strategy failed. He ran over her, and then back over her despite every attempt from bystanders to get him to stop. It turns out that the lives of some US citizens - even beautiful, young, white women - are valued more than others.

 

There is something else that Jessica Lynch and Rachel Corrie have in common: both of their stories have been distorted to serve a purpose. When the Pentagon announced Lynch's successful rescue, she became a hero, complete with "America loves Jessica" fridge magnets, stickers, T-shirts, mugs, country songs and an NBC made-for-TV movie. According to White House spokesman Ari Fleischer, President George Bush was "full of joy for Jessica Lynch". Her rescue, we were told, was a testament to a core American value: as West Virginia senator Jay Rockefeller said to the Senate: "We take care of our people."

 

Do they? Corrie's death, which made the papers for two days and then virtually disappeared, has met with almost total official silence, despite the fact that eyewitnesses claim it was a deliberate act. President Bush has said nothing about a US citizen killed by a US-made bulldozer bought with US tax dollars. A US congressional resolution demanding an independent inquiry has been buried in committee, leaving the Israeli military's investigation - which cleared itself of any wrongdoing - as the only official investigation.

 

So who is a hero? During the attack on Iraq, some of Corrie's friends emailed her picture to MSNBC asking that it be included on the station's "wall of heroes", along with Jessica Lynch. The network didn't comply, but Corrie is being honoured in other ways. Her family has received more than 10,000 letters of support, communities across the country have organised memorial services, and children from the occupied territories are being named Rachel. It's not a made-for-TV kind of tribute, but maybe that's for the best.

 

Rachel Corrie and the bulldozer that took her life

[Moridin]

If this whole thing was staged, I truly feel sorry for Jessica Lynch. For her to be stuck in the middle of something fake, something that she probably didn't know a thing about is amazing.

 

I do have my theories about this. There needed to be some sort of success story in Iraq, because everything else has basically been a failure. We were all lied to throughout the whole ordeal. President Bush and his "helpers" basically told the American public that we were going to rid a country with weapons of "mass destruction." If anyone has seen some of the smaller articles, you'll find no weapons have been found, nor have they probably existed in the last few years. Personally, this country has it's values quite out of whack. We impeach a president for lying about his sexual affairs, but the next one can send a country to war based on another lie; potentially putting many of our troops and the citizens of Iraq in harms way. Don't forget the financial ramifications of this effort.

 

Back to the Lynch story. The glamorization of it all is just a result of our capitilistic system. It's an unfortunate side effect, but that's the way some people here work.

[SleeperZ]

It's a sad state of affairs - I heard the Lynch story was staged on the BBC, and I never heard that from any US news source. I heard the timing was perfect to coincide with waning US public support for the war once we engaged and became bogged down going to Baghdad.

 

[Moridin]

The BBC is a much better place for news that is potential damning to the U.S. I want to know what's wrong with my country, so I know how to vote to fix it. Can't hear that here. Big wigs up top only let us know what they want us to.

[johnc]

Doesn't American military doctrine require the use of overwhelming force in these kind of situations? Why on earth would these soldiers, who had others from their unit killed in the days leading up to the rescue, go into this situation shooting blanks?

 

Sure, they found no opposition and no Iraqi soldiers at the hospital. They sure as hell wouldn't want to assume that going in. Anyone think they should have walked up to the front door, knocked, and asked if Jessica could come out and play?

 

Do your own thinking and research. Remember, the BBC (an extremely liberal, anti-US organization) opposed the war from the beginning and is still doing all it can to back up that opposition. Every news organization has an agenda. Keep that in mind when reading "news" stories.

 

And for external views of the US, may I suggest The Economist and Der Spiegel.

[DavyZ]

John, I completely concur. Great sources BTW!! I love The Economist when I can get my hands on one. A subscription is beastly expensive!

 

BTW, guys---keep in mind that not everyone agrees with you that the war was a 'failure.' Sounds like you have been listening to my congressman again

 

 

Davy

[Moridin]

I've heard of those, but have always had a hard time finding a copy around here. I look to the BBC to be far more honest than any of our news stories here. Remember, Bush's cousin runs FOX, an many others are also on the same agenda.

 

As far as the Lynch story goes, I remember reading that they knew there was no one left in the building. They knew there was not going to be any opposition what so ever. As far as using over-whelming force, I agree, but it should only be used in defense of our country. I've yet to see any weapons of "mass destruction" undercovered in Iraq. That makes this Lynch thing all the more suspicious, because our government needed a feel good story to divert American attention from the fact that this whole "war" has been on a lie. Don't get me wrong, I fully believe in supporting our troops 110%, but only in defense of our country; not to feed the pocket books of our leaders.

[jt1]

I think the truth is somewhere in between. Almost all news coverage nowadays has some spin to it, or glamorized to sell ads.

 

I see Jessica's story as remarkable, not heroic IMO. First of all, the whole thing started when they GOT LOST. They apparently resisted the Iraqi's somewhat, but got killed or captured. Brave, but not heroic.

 

I think the Special Forces using blanks is complete BS. These guys are deadly serious, and even if the intel said the hospital wasn't guarded, the intel could be wrong, or a few truckloads of Iraqi's could have driven up in the meantime. Flashbangs are routinely used in entering a building. They stun and disorient without the danger of shrapnel to friendly forces.

 

If Saddam didn't have WMD, he was working towards them, with concealed facilities. We gave them 6 months notice we we going to come kick their ass. Plenty more concealment or transportation out of the country could have gone on in that time. We may never find them or Saddam; many Iraqi's don't trust the US because of our wimpout when the shiites uprose against him and we let him slaughter them, and are unwilling to help us.

 

John

[johnc]

Having worked with a number of ex-patriot Iraqis in the early 1990s I supported an overthrow of the Iraqi regime for years. Sadam is as evil as they come - on par with Pol Pot, Hitler, and Stalin. Regardless of the rational, removing him from power was a good thing for the Iraqi people and the world.

 

I understand the position of using our military only in the defense of our country, so let me ask a question: Should we have invaded Afgahnistan after 9/11?

[SleeperZ]

Having worked with a number of ex-patriot Iraqis in the early 1990s I supported an overthrow of the Iraqi regime for years. Sadam is as evil as they come - on par with Pol Pot' date=' Hitler, and Stalin. Regardless of the rational, removing him from power was a good thing for the Iraqi people and the world.

 

I understand the position of using our military only in the defense of our country, so let me ask a question: Should we have invaded Afgahnistan after 9/11?[/quote']

 

I think Afganistan can be justified as there were CLEAR links between the Taliban and the 9/11 terrorists. Iraq has never had links to Osama, and in my opinion, it's invasion cannot be justified in terms of reducing terrorism - it increases the risk of terrorism daily because of our presence there. We have effectively tied down our military pacifying Iraq (like THAT will happen) and reduced our ability to act against terrorist threats elsewhere.

[Moridin]

I believe 9/11 was more of a mindless reaction than any thoughtful attempt to find those responsible (that's hard too, because most of them blew themselves up with the planes). Probably close to 4000 civilians died in Afghan because of our military efforts. What does our country have to show for it? Not much that I know of.

 

Where one Saddam leaves another will take his place. I also want to remind everyone that it was our country who helped Saddam come to power and supplied him with many of those WMD for many years. We also trained Osama Bin Laden and helped the Taliban into power. It's a wonder why we have so many problems in the world. For those of you that don't know, if you follow the money that helped to pay for the 9/11 attacks, you'll probably find it came through Saudi Arabia. A lot of that money probably came from our tax dollars, since we give them a lot of funds.

 

I guess my point that I'm trying to get across is that many times the U.S. has placed many of these situations upon itself. We should have done something the minute Saddam used weapons on his own people. Unfortunately, it's my belief that our leaders will do anything unless it suits their personal agenda or pocketbook, not necesarily for the good of the country.

 

How does the relate back to the Lynch story? That's a tough one, but I think it has more to do with our service men and women of the U.S. being put in situations they should have never been put in, in the first place. I love this country too much to let leaders use people's lives for personal gain. Instead of leaving at there, making me sound like an a**h***, I also want to say that I very much appreciate those that work hard for this wonderful country and give 100% every day.

[johnc]

Well... I'm not of the mindset that the US and its leaders are completely self-serving or evil. I don't feel guilty about our conduct in world affairs and we didn't deserve the attack that occurred on 9/11. Yes, I'm sure with hindsight there are a lot of things we could have done differently, but no matter what we do there are still going to be millions of people on this planet who hate us and want to kill every American they find.

 

I agree with the change in military doctrine from deterrence to prevention. For decades we waited until someone else got in the first punch before considering any reaction. Its exactly like the Hollywood cowboy movies where the guy in the white hat takes the first punch from the guy in the black hat. It makes the white hat cowboy appear morally correct and justified in his measured response (remember, he never beats the black hat cowboy to death).

 

Unfortunately, things have gotten so deadly in this world that we can't sit back and watch 3,000 of our friends and family get slaughtered just so we can appear to the world as the cowboy in the white hat. Its not like Pearl Harbor where soldiers and sailors where killed. Now they are after you, your family, and your friends.

 

Passive resistance and diplomacy doesn't work when someone is trying to murder you. If some nation, leader, or individual stands up and says, "We will kill every American!" I think we should take that seriously and act accordingly, regardless of world opinion. As Todd Beamer said to the passengers on flight 93, "Let's roll!"

[Dave240Z]

Couldn't agree with you me johnc.

[johnc]

I guess this might be a little off topic, but here's a good analysis of the USA vs. the USE. I predict that we will be at war with Europe by 2013 in some third-party country somewhere in the middle east.

 

http://www.andrewsullivan.com/main_article.php?artnum=20030614

[Moridin]

I'd be more weary of China than USE. We sell all of our technologies to China. Anywho, I'm not asking for you to sit back and do nothing, nor do I believe that all of our leaders are self-serving and evil. I believe they take advantage of situations that have poor effects on our nation. From what I've found, its not that people hate us, but rather they very much dislike the US government. In the many cases that I've seen, its been our country's dealings with theirs that causes problems. I think we should be looking more to the root of terrorism instead of just irradicating anyone "possibly" involved.

 

As for pre-emptive aggresion versus defense, I disagree. The spirit upon which our country was founded (basically the Constitution) is definitely against any pre-emptive decisions. Assuming someone's guilty without ample proof does little to nothing. I do aplaud our administration for making some attempt (some what half-heartedly) at trying to prove a case against Iraq. Clinton and many before him would have just bombed the crap out of them, no questions asked.

 

John, I see you are very much a realist. Who's going to be the next big nation trying to take number 1 away, right? I believe that world operates more as a captilistic system than a struggle for power (My International Relations class is paying off). Different countries can operate on capitilism, socialism, etc..., but the world as a whole runs on capitilism. The people on top are just out to make a some money. Hopefully that clears up a little more where I'm coming from with all this.

[Guest bluex_v1]

Heavy Z,

Rachel Corrie as shown on the 'Olympia Movement for Justice and Peace' website:

She tried to stop an IDF bulldozer from clearing brush that concealed tunnels used for smuggling drugs, prostitutes, weapons, and terrorists from Egypt into the disputed territories. Rachel Corrie died under a pile of gravel and dirt. The driver never saw her. And the bulldozer did not run over her even once, much less twice. If this had happened, her body would have been unrecognizable as a human being; the photos taken that day show her quite intact, and even able to speak.

Whether or not the above is true...why would an America-hating socialist be expected to become a poster-child?

 

Let us also remember that feel-good stories like Jessica Lynch's rescue have been going on for as long as war itself. There is a logical, justifiable need to have these stories to assist in the defense of a nation. Morale boosters can go a long way to help a group meet its goals.

[Moridin]

Want to read what Rachel Corrie had to say rather than listen to glamorized media, check this out: http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,916299,00.html

[Guest bluex_v1]

ok, no offense intended, but 'Glamorized media'? Does a website constitute glamorized media now? I sure have not heard any of this portrayed on CNN, local news, or even Fox. Honestly, no, I'm not interested in what Corrie had to say knowing that she was obviously not close to being an impartial observer, but I read it anyway and all I gained was more surprise from her perspective that the Palestinians do not hold their 'leadership' more accountable for their current situation. Seriously, did she not consider the goal of removing Jews from Arab lands to be genocide too? Is there nothing to be said about the oppression dealt to the Palestinians by the local Arabs? Unfortunately they are really just more 'useful idiots' that allow themselves to be pawns in the effort to remove Israel from domination in the ME.

It is so much easier to blame Bush, or to blame Capitalism, blame the IDF, blame the PLO, blame Arafat or make other responses based primarily on emotion; then to realize and deal with the truth that the world is a very complex system and has to cycle and find its own balance of power. There are 6 billion variables all effecting this cycle all to varying degrees of influence. No human can truly understand how all the pieces fit. The best you can do is localize your efforts to what you have knowledge and understanding of and minimize the effects of outside influences in your area of control. You can't artificially direct it with Oslo accords and roadmaps to peace...everyone has to take responsibility for themselves wherever they find themselves in whatever way possible to empower themselves to rise above all the crap. No matter how oppressed you are, you still have free will, there are always other options, they just may require more fortitude to reach them and a mind less malleable. -that's my ignorant opinion anyway.

Sorry to hijack the thread...I should leave that activity to the jihadists

[Heavy Z]

She tried to stop an IDF bulldozer from clearing brush that concealed tunnels used for smuggling drugs, prostitutes, weapons, and terrorists from Egypt into the disputed territories.

 

Nope, Rafah is being cleared to make room a security wall, pure and simple. She was not in front of a tunnel but protecting the house of Dr. Samir, a physician she'd gotten to know while in Rafah. If you're interested, Billie Moskona-Lerman, a reporter from the most widely-read Israeli newspaper Ma'ariv, decided to go to Rafah after hearing about Corrie's story. You may give this more credibility as she is Israeli and went in with the intention of seeing if what Corrie was saying was B.S. or not:

 

http://www.gush-shalom.org/archives/shield_eng.html

 

Rachel Corrie died under a pile of gravel and dirt. The driver never saw her. And the bulldozer did not run over her even once, much less twice. If this had happened, her body would have been unrecognizable as a human being; the photos taken that day show her quite intact, and even able to speak.

 

bluex_v1, here is the deposion of the American photographer who took the pics, he wasn't but a few feet from the incident:

 

http://www.palsolidarity.org/activists/rachelcorrie/rachel_Joedetails.htm

 

"The bulldozer continued driving forward headed straight for Rachel. When it got so close that it was moving the earth beneath her, she climbed onto the pile of rubble being pushed by the bulldozer. She got so high onto it that she was at eye-level with the cab of the bulldozer. Her head and upper torso were above the bulldozer's blade, and the bulldozer driver and co-operator could clearly see her. Despite this, he continued forward, which pulled her legs into the pile of rubble, and pulled her down out of view of the driver. If he'd stopped at this point, he may have only broken her legs, but he continued forward, which pulled her underneath the bulldozer...We ran towards him, and waved our arms and shouted, one activist with the megaphone. But the bulldozer driver continued forward, until Rachel was underneath the cab of the bulldozer...Despite the obviousness of her position, the bulldozer began to reverse, without lifting its blade, and dragged the blade over her body again...Three activists ran to her and began administering first-response medical treatment. Her body was in a mangled position, her face was very bloody, and her skin was turning blue. She said, "My back is broken" but nothing else."

 

There are also depositions from two more Americans and two Brits that weren't more than 30 feet away that I won't bother including, but they say essentially the same thing - They flat-out contradict what you wrote.

 

Whether or not the above is true...why would an America-hating socialist be expected to become a poster-child?

 

Calling her 'America-hating,' rather than dealing with the fact that she disagrees with SOME policies of her government is a really simplistic view that short-cuts one's ability to reason. Finding out why she was so upset takes more effort, but you'll understand her perspective better if you do.

 

ok, no offense intended, but 'Glamorized media'? Does a website constitute glamorized media now? I sure have not heard any of this portrayed on CNN, local news, or even Fox.

 

The Guardian is the largest newspaper in England, not just an obscure website. I know you don't hear about it in the news, that's my point.

 

Unfortunately they are really just more 'useful idiots' that allow themselves to be pawns in the effort to remove Israel from domination in the ME.

 

'Useful idiot' is unnecessary - she died doing something she believed in, and that takes courage. Would her life be worth more to you if she shared your political beliefs? Also, most Jews would disagree with you on your second point. They don't want to dominate the Middle East, but want to live peaceably with their neighbors. This has been the basis of the Israeli political platform for years.

 

The best you can do is localize your efforts to what you have knowledge and understanding of and minimize the effects of outside influences in your area of control.

 

This works fine for local matters. Do you like the fact that your mom or wife can vote, the end of racial segregation, or that children have to go to school rather than working in factories? The first and last examples were partially brought to you courtesy of those socialists you mentioned during the progressive era, none could've been accomplished had people chosen not to look over their own fences. This is much simpler though. Rachel Corrie was not inciting the overthrow of Israel, she was trying to bring attention to what she felt was wrong. If you read her diaries then you know she was only looking to help protect wells, property, schoolchildren - so please tell me, what is so diabolical about that?

 

I hope you read some of these articles bluex_v1, and let me know if you have more questions. They should help you see the parts of the story you've missed. And as for the pic you included, sure I don't agree with it, but it is her right to voice her opposition as we have freedom of speech in this country. To say otherwise would be, well, anti-American.