PETEW Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 In my instructions from Ross it says "Be sure to allow at least 1/8" or so gap from the top of your strut tube to the top of your threaded tube (varies depending on your tube length and spring length, inquire about your specific combo) so you can easily install/remove your strut tube gland nut without your gland nut wrench torquing on the threaded aluminum tube." I am not sectioning my struts at this time and I have 8" coils all around. I am assuming that I should stay with the 1/8 from the top #, but maybe there is a reason to go lower. Is there??? I want to take these to the welder today, so I figured I would ask quick. Last thing I want is to get them welded and find out they should welded in a lower spot. Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Pete, I used the existing weld on the strut tube (the weld that held the oem spring saddle in place) to rest my sleeve on. I need to grind that weld down and weld on a support about 3 inches lower. At the moment my adjustment is at the bottom and the car still sits about 1-1.5 inches too high, so lowering the sleeve 3 inches should put the adjuster right in the middle of the sleeve. HTH. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PETEW Posted October 22, 2003 Author Share Posted October 22, 2003 Tim, when you say it sits 1-1.5 " too high, do you mean for your liking or higher than stock. I am looking to lower my car only 2" to start, that is why I am not sectioning my struts. Do you still think I need to weld the steel bushing below the stock perch weld? How are you suppopsed to figure this out before welding it on and making a mistake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 You could get the 8" sleeves. Don't think you can really make a mistake with the long sleeves... Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Pete, Maybe you can clamp something in place (a exhaust U-bolt, or something along those lines. My car with 245/50-16s on it has about a 2.5 inch gap between the wheel arch and the tire. I want about 1.5 or so. I have no idea what stock is. Also, just as a caveat, I have no glass installed and some interior is still not in, but even if I get in the car, it makes little difference, so I doubt the door and hatch glass will. BTW, I'm running 225lb in the rear and 200lb springs up front. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PETEW Posted October 22, 2003 Author Share Posted October 22, 2003 There has got to be a way to figure out where to mount this steel collar, besides trial and error. I would think there would be some sort of formula to figure out where it needs to be. Tim, it sounds like you are using a very similar setup to mine. I have Ross' 8" coil overs with 200 up front and 225 out back. I am going to have 245/45-16 (mounted on 16x9's) all around for now. I just want to lower the center of gravity a little not make it scrape the ground. If I decide to section I will do it later. I would prefer not to and have shocks made for the car, instaed of mr2 shocks. Man, it's always the little crap that turns into a big problem that frustrates the hell out of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aaron Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 I if you know the corner or axle weights you could estimate the compression of the spring which would give you a pretty good estimate of the location to mount the perch. Someone please verify my numbers. Assume a 2500 lb car, 8 in springs, 200 lb rear springs, 175 lb front springs 50/50 weight distribution. 2500/4=625 pounds per wheel. (If you knew your corner weights you could use the number and calculate each wheel) Using the calculator here 625lbs will deflect the 200lb spring to 4.875 in, and the 175lb spring to 4.4286 in. You could place your strut assembly (minus springs) where you would like the car to sit, measure the compressed distance from the upper perch, and that would be the middle of the threaded collar. Disclaimer: This is all speculation on my part. I do not have a degree in engineering, and this is how my feeble mind sees things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spotfitz Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 I have basically the same setup as Tim has described, on my '74. I welded a 1/2" "rest" on top of the original pirch weld for the sleeve to rest on and I have about the same gap between tire and fender as mentioned. New perch is sitting down about 3/4 down on the sleeve and I want it lower, by atleast an 1". I wish I would have welded mine about 1 1/2" to 2" lower then what it is now. Depending on your sleeve size(if 5") I would lower it atleast 1 1/2" below the original spring pirch weld. This should put the new spring pirch about half way down the sleeve(compared to 3/4 down). Once you have put the weight down on the suspension the car will not drop but about 1/2" once resting on the spring, with the spring weights of 200# front, 250# rear. I have pics somewhere, for comparison. I'll try to dig them up. With the suspension set up like it is now, if I jack the Z up(with suspension unloaded) I can turn and wiggle the springs. You loose alot of travel with it this low, but I want it lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PETEW Posted October 23, 2003 Author Share Posted October 23, 2003 Tim and Spotfitz, did you guys section your struts? I am just trying to compare to what you guys are doing. It sounds like the rest of your setups are very close to mine. I think I will try and get a hold of Ross, too. He has been hard to find recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Pete' date='I used the existing weld on the strut tube (the weld that held the oem spring saddle in place) to rest my sleeve on. I need to grind that weld down and weld on a support about 3 inches lower. At the moment my adjustment is at the bottom and the car still sits about 1-1.5 inches too high, so lowering the sleeve 3 inches should put the adjuster right in the middle of the sleeve. HTH. Tim[/quote'] Tim, you must have at least 10" if not 12" springs?! Pete has 8's appropriately for his setup and is fine at an 1/8" below. I let him know if he was apprehensive he could go ~1" below MAX. We have to know what we're comparing when referencing geometries/what works/what doesn't. Pete's collars would have been lorider height with 14" spoked wheels at 3" down He received a reply from me yesterday w/in 3 hrs of sending me his q, I summarized this as follows. (a quick off the cuff reply as I know the answer and wanted to quickly justify it to Pete) "You have 8" long springs which I sent, and 4 or 5" long threaded collars(280Z style).........assume adjusting nut is 3/4" thick.........so this leaves 3.25" of tube minimum overlap for your springs..plus 1/8" minimum from top of tube and then gland nut.....say 0.2" minimum.....now we've consumed 3.45" of spring...leaving 4.55" of spring for actual travel above top of strut......car will settle a good inch+ when you set it down....brings you down to 3.55" of travel.....subtract bump stop and inset of top spring hat.....at least 1.2" depending on how you set that up...maximum 2.3" of compression travel at your LOWEST setting assuming it only settled one inch when you set it down. You can lower that tube up to one inch below the top of the strut tube if you like...reducing potential max travel at max lowest setting to 1.3" or less which is certainly a minimum for safe travel at those spring rates.....I wouldn't place the top of your threaded tube more than one inch below the top of your strut tube max. So place your threaded tube their and then the custom MML low profile metal support collar immediately beneath that." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Ross, I bought my kit from you...I can't remember the length, but you are likely correct...probably 10inch springs and 4 inch sleeves. Pete...sorry if my responses caused any confusion. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Ross' date='I bought my kit from you...I can't remember the length, but you are likely correct...probably 10inch springs and 4 inch sleeves. [/quote'] Really?? That's not my setup. I have no sales or shipping record or documented discussion of your coilover needs. Subsequently just checked your site pics and I DON'T sell those non-hypercoil SST springs pictured or the taller top hats and I'm not positive but the lower collar pictured appears to be of the 'comes loose eventually' type I don't use either as I didn't like them initially and have subsequently had direct feedback that, yes they do come loose. (style with solid one pice collar with small phillips screw perpendicular to strut body with rubber bushing at base) The collar that's 'slit' and has an angled stainless keeper allen head bolt is VERY good and does not come loose. Not pointed at you, just clearing up some common q's on 'is your setup different from others'. And final confirmation in this posting here fromyourself "Posted: 30 Aug 2002 15:39 Post subject: Coil Overs - Photo Comparison? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <snip> have a look at Mike's site...that is where I got mine from. " Not picking on you at all Tim, even unintentional misinformation just spreads like weeds and confuses others. Your top hat alone supplied by 'others' is worth 3/4" or even 1" in susp. travel combined with your 2 or even 4" longer springs is what led you to require a collar placement much lower (the 3" you stated) than my own typical setups. And if I'm off base let me know and perhaps I'm sniffing something I'm not aware of! I don't setup stiffer cars with longer springs than required, they're just added weight and required collar placement is wrong if you want to step to shorter springs later on for improved tire/wheel clearance or other reasons. Respectfully (and still buds!) yours, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Hmmm maybe it was Mike Gibson then? Crap it's been so long now.... Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PETEW Posted October 23, 2003 Author Share Posted October 23, 2003 Sorry if I have confused everyone. I just felt it would be fun to have everyone feel like me. Ross, I apologize if I made it sound like I couldn't get a hold of you. That was not the case. You are usually very quick in your responses and your product is absolutely stunning. I just know that you have other things to do other than answer my stupid questions. Next time I will go to you directly. Thanks to everyone that tried to help me. I will have pics of my beautiful suspension up the next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 No worries, just glad you got it sorted. Their are NO dumb questions:) Feel free to question on me on anything. Tim, if you need/want shorter springs and shorter tops let me know and I'll help get you to your desired setup (and perhaps some of the locking lower nuts, stockcar guys often resort to duct taping that type of lower adjustable collar to prevent them from coming loose, I have 30 or 40 I got FREE on the shelf I won't give away in packages as I just don't like that non-dependability). (style I use are a notable extra cost) I should be selling my package for more considering the custom items and combo I use in my coil over setups BUT to date not many are aware of the differences between packages easing their install and final product that I offer including the custom lower supports. Perhaps I under market/promote my own goods, who knows. Anyhow, I'm babbling now and just wanted to say all q's are welcome and good luck with your installs (everyone!) regardless of what products you're using. I'm dreaming of some time to do my own installs on my own ride for some fun upgrades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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