Guest RisqueRace? Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 First of all, Hello All. I am new to this board, and so far, I very much like what I see. Lots of good advice flying about. Some background for my questions (please be patient with me) I am new to datsuns and to small chevs. lots of other experience though, in auto machining and fabbing of stuff in general. I traded a snowmobile for two 78 datsun 280's (always loved the look of the car) the first is an automatic car/no rust, but has had some previous front damage. the front metal is bondoed up and the Frame is tweaked up front, and the car handles accordingly. Drives ok, but...... The second car is rusted in the frame and floor/the usual in the body but, comes along with BRAND NEW sheet metal on the front end, and all the leftover stuff that is good. So here is the projected plan. cut off the first car at the firewall and use aftermarket, or fab new front frame assy. and use good front sheetmetal off second car to dress out. In other words, Front half the car first. In the end I plan to also backhalf for use as a street/strip car. One step at a time as they say. I plan to use small chev for power and a 200r4 OD trans. Are there aftermarket engine/frame swap kits that do not use the stock frame rails that can be expanded to a full caged drag car in the end?? Does anyone have any plans/done this themself?? Can ya help me here? How much power can the stock rears handle? and also are the brakes good enough for future drag race applications. Thanks in advance Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 Bruce, I was planning to do a conversion much like you described with a fabricated tube frame. Luckily, I found a car that was not too bad with frame damage (rust) so I scrapped the idea. My car has been hit in the right front and had the frame rail slightly tweeked but Mike Kelly and I measured it and everything seems to be in line, thank goodness!!! When I was considering the tube frame car I contacted just about every race car builder I could find on the web about Datsun Z cars. I found no one that offered a "kit" for the Datsun Z car. I did, however, find a couple of places that were willing to do a custom kit based on my measurements. S&W Race Cars and Art Morrison Race Cars. Art Morrison Race Cars advised me they would be willing to bend a full frame out of 2X3 .083 wall tubing for, if I remember correctly, $550.00. They would then add the roll cage kit, I am sorry but I don't remember the cost, to the frame rails and I would have a tube frame. Also, Mike (SCCA) has a GT2 car with a tube frame and I believe he has done, or a friend of his, a tube frame for a V8 car. Pete Paraska also has a very well documented web page on how he fabricated and replaced the frame rails on his 240Z. Good Luck!!! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Bayley Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 Wow, I thought every last Z car in Minnesota had rusted into a fine dust. I've had many wonderful (and slightly reckless) experiences with Z cars and Minnesota. Something about trying to beat a Grand National on I-35 in downtown Duluth that brings a tear to my eye. Needless to say, the 45 mph speed limit was WAAAY exceeded. Welcome aboard. As for the tube front end, ask Ron Jones what he did. I "believe" he is running something similar to what you previously described. Good Luck -Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RON JONES Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 Bruce,I,d be glad to e-mail you some pics of my frame.You can e-mail your address @ rhjd2802@msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 Hey Ron, think you could cc me those pics too? I'd like to see. ------------------ "THE STREETS WILL FLOW WITH THE OIL OF THE NON-BELIEVERS" Drax240z 1972 240z - L28TURBO transplant on the way! http://members.xoom.com/r_lewis/datsun.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 Folks, This might not be entirely related, but I was just wondering what people considered to be a "tube frame". My idea of a tube framed car was one where every body panel just bolts to the tube superstructure. So, the floor boards, the firewall, the roof - everything - is just along for the ride, while the "tubes" take care of all the loads. So funny cars are "tube framed", but something like the GT-1 Porsches and Corvettes are not.... ....which probably means that a roll cage bolted to a ladder frame, with the stock body welded on top, is not a tube frame. Any opinions? As to the original posting in this thread, I would have thought that the strongest part of the stock Datsun body is the structure forward of the firewall. So this would be the last portion of the car that one would remove and replace with a custom piece. The spacing between the frame rails is wide enough to fit even a big block, though accommodating the exhaust does require some modification. The area where the tension/compression struts mount underneath the frame rails is a natural hard point, and a good place to weld supports for engine mounts. With some fabrication, it is fairly "simple" to splice the front end of one Datsun into the rest of the body of another. The front clip of my car was completely cut off (and then welded back together), to accommodate my firewall setback project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RisqueRace? Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 Thanks for the responses. I need to clarify that the front frame is damaged enough to just be cut off and discarded. I need to replace it and there are no stock replacements around here in the datsun department. "All rusted away to minute dust particles" Also I need to cage and backhalf the car eventually for drag racing use. For now (a couple of years) I would like to street drive it. The questions I have left for now are 1. How much power can the Datsun differential take. Is it going to hold up to a mild 350 with an auto tranny? 2. Are the front suspension and brakes worthy of saving considering the future use of this car, or because of the frame work that needs to be done, would it be wiser to go ahead and replace this stuff now? Thanks again, Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 Not sure if I totally have a grasp of the whole question, but on the engine swap to a non-stock frame rail (If thats what I understood to be what you said), you can always use an engine plate in the front that spans out to the frame rails. This is typically done with say 1/4" plate either steel or you could use aluminum (aircraft 6061 t6). Most typically mount to the water pump area with a gasket on each side of the plate (basically the plate is sandwiched by the block and water pump). Attachment to the frame on either side can then be done with angle iron welded to the chassis. Obviously there may need to be some machining done on the water pump (mill off the 1/4 plus gaskets thickness), or a custom pulley to keep the belt in alignment. Rear transmission mount can be (per JTR manual)a flat plate and can be solidly mounted. If I've totally mis-understood what you were asking, just consider this a bunch of rambling and move on the the next post. Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RON JONES Posted October 5, 2000 Share Posted October 5, 2000 Drax,I'm on My way out the door to a Parent-Teacher meating.I'll e-mail you some pics when I get home or tomorow.Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Bayley Posted October 6, 2000 Share Posted October 6, 2000 Bruce, There are quite a few people on this list alone that are pushing well over 400hp through a stock R200 Datsun Differential. The weak link seems to be the U-jointed half shafts. Some people claim success, while others complain of catastrophic failure using the stock units. Personally, I've run a handful of 1.6xx 60 footers through a stock half shaft. Yes, it held up... for a while, then it finally broke loose taking out a brake line in the process. I'm glad I was still in the staging area and not running through the big end Hopefully all these problems will be solved with the 280ZX turbo CV half shafts. Look into the "Driveline" section of this list and there should be a few threads about CV axel conversions. It sounds a little tricky, but seems worth while. As for the brake and suspension, I am still running bone-stock-OEM brakes all the way around. I've never had any fade problems at the track, even from +120mph. Also, for a long time I was running stock suspension (springs are struts). Two years ago I went to a coil over setup specifically so I could fit more tire under the fender and get a little rake out of the car at the track. I figured if I was doing the back... might as well do the front. I guess it really didn't need to be done in the front, it was more the back that needed to stiffened up a bit. Well, good luck in your pursuit. If you need any "less than perfect" Z parts, I might have a contact for you up in Duluth. A friend of mine up there took two of my old Z cars and I'm not sure if he still has them anymore or not. -Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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