B&M RACING trans. or B/W T5 WORLD CLASS

[warrenp]

here i am with fork in my path!

i'm building up a chevy 250 twin turbo project.

i have a borg warner T5 world class transmission i was going to use.

even though i have been told automatics are better for my application.

 

a friend of mine owns a small machine shop and he was given this B&M transmission it's a chrysler torque flight 727.

but the tail shaft has been shortened and the bell housing cut off and adapter was made to take a standard bell housing.

for better take off.

i was told by B&M that when the trans was made there was no good standard transmissions at the time and no good torque converts made so this was there comprimise.

a automatic bolted to a standard clutch assembly.

 

i don't know how many of you have even heard of such a timg but they did it on GM 400 turbo's too.

do you guys think this would be optimal for my application?

he told me $200 and i can have it.

[warrenp]

umm i guessing maybe no one know what kind of trans i'm talking about?

personally this is the 1st automatic i have seen like this but B&M says they made them for years.

[Mike C]

They were also made by Fairbanks. Called a Clutch Flite in the Chrylser form and a Clutch Turbo in the GM TH400 guise. They were the predecessor to the Lenco for all intents and purposes. A special pump drive engages the clutches so the auto part works. You have to clutch and shift like a manual in most cases. All of them should be full manual valve body, meaning the car will stay in whatever gear you select, regardless of speed or throttle position. They are an interesting idea, and if you could get one cheap, why not?

[warrenp]

i have no idea what these should go for. so by the sounds of it 200 is cheep?

i already have the t5 world class i was just going to sell that to buy the trans off my friend.

so if you was to compare the two in a turbo car.

do you think the clutch flight is the way to go or the t5.

personally i'm leaning towardthe clutch flight.

i just want a second opinion to make me feel better about the decision

[A. G. Olphart]

I doubt if you could break the transmission part of a Clutch-Flite since they were built to race (727s were STOUT and are inexpensive to rebuild).

 

The key part(s) would be the clutch/pump drive mechanism Mike referred to... somehow they drove the automatic's front pump off a standard transmission style flywheel and clutch. The price sounds like a steal if all the parts are there and useable.

 

It would be interesting to know how they controlled runout on that pump drive.

 

You may, however, need to find the rare 3.364 diff to have decent highway manners- no OD.

 

BTW- you couldn't really consider this an automatic in the usual sense, as there is a standard clutch in lieu of a torque converter- no fluid coupling involved.

[warrenp]

i believe it's all pertty muvh there no bell housung but i can prolly adapt about anything easy. it's just an matter of input shaft length.

the clutch/pump drive mechanism i'm no completly sure what that is.

there is a "cluch dog" on the shaft thats what my friend refered to it as.

[A. G. Olphart]

If you have the full T5 setup and it will handle the torque you expect to make, that sounds like the preferable solution to me.

 

Coming up with bellhousings/adapters is one of those tasks that is simple in concept but can prove difficult in execution.

 

Know how a lathe dog runs off a face plate? (If not, imagine a rotating dinner plate with a 'U' shaped notch in it. Picture a bicycle crank rotating around the same center as the dinner plate. Insert bike pedal into the notch in dinner plate. Now when the plate turns, the bike crank has to turn also).

 

Sounds like there is some sort of crank type mechanism that rides on/against the clutch fingers (Long or Borg & Beck style clutch, not diaphragm) to spin the transmission's pump. There has to be some interesting kind of throwout bearing arrangement fit in there also. Durability/longevity and runout/vibration might be a problem for a street car.

 

If I were seriously considering a Clutch-flite installation, I'd find my answers and locate ALL the components before shelling out $$.

 

Happy Hybridizing 8) !!!

[warrenp]

i been thinking about the the last few days.

and i think i'm going to be stuck with the t5.

i like the clutch flight idea, but like you said i just do not want to find the parts needed. i'm sure it wouldn't be of awful hard.

i'm still trying to find all the parts to build my twin turbo project.

i want garret t3's. whitch is not a problem. the problem is finding to matching t3's in the junk yards.

i have 4 t3's right now, one from a 85 300zx, one from a volvo, one from a saab (front mount) and one from a saab (side mount)

none of them match. the down pipes are definetly not intercganeable between t3's either. and none of the exhaust housing are identical.

also still trying to run down tripple webbers and intake manifold for a 250 chevy. all on a very tight budget right now.