Need HONEST opinion of repair difficulty and feasibility

[MrWOT]

I've finally made my engine selection, so now I'm shopping for a Z to shoehorn the engine and trans into (don't ask for what combo, it's a secret, for now.... ) And I've come across a 1976 280 (I choose the 280 for it's added structural strength, may go with a 240 and beef it up depending on how hard this is to repair), it's in decent shape (I think) but has pretty harsh rust damage in the subframe under the passenger and drivers seats. Pictures of the car and the rust areas are below, the rust is pretty bad, I need to know how difficult this would be to fix. I am pretty good with engines and electrical work, but I've never done anything with body or welding. I am taking my first welding course this fall, I need to know if this is a feasible project REALISTICALLY. This car will have to suffice as a daily driver as I have no capacity to store two vehicles so it would be driven while under repair. Can it be done, esp by an ameteur? I will have access to a full welding shop about 5 hours per day. IS this the kind of work that you can do stop and go in this kind of timeframe? If it isn't be brutally honest please, I can't afford to get saddled with something I can't complete, as I will have no backup vehicle in the meantime, and getting one isn't an option since I have nowhere to put one I don't have a problem with waiting for a different car if this isn't something an ameteur should tackle. Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

Pictures of it here http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sammuelmuel/album?.dir=/2d29&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/sammuelmuel

[Tim240z]

If you've never done any welding, or fabbing, and this is going to be a primary vehicle, then I would pass on it.

If you had something else to drive, then I would say go for it.....

 

Tim

[Guest Zachb55]

i say you could get it, drive it, buy new frame rails and in one day you can remove the old rusted ones and in another day you can put the new ones in most of the way, but you still would have to paint and undercoat them. i would suggest highly against driving it without the frame rails in, especially if you drive on lots of bumpy terrain cause that could lead to some bending. its deffinately do-able, if you can go for like a week without your daily driver. also, what do you plan on driving when swapping the motor in? thats going to take more then a day or two i would presume.

 

-Zach

[MrWOT]

Actually, I timed myself, the entire swap took me 11 hours on a test bed consisting of stripped 75 280. That was with some troubleshooting (first time wiring a harness 8) ). I figure about an additional 6 hours to strip the engine cmpt of whatever I buy. Of course the test bed also had no wheel wells or firewall, so the whole thing will be reevaluated before I attempt an install anyway. The roads I drive aren't bumpy at all, but they are mountain roads and it would put stress on the frame. How much labor is involved in the reframe? From the sound of it, looks like I may have to pass.

[Z-TARD]

How bad are the floors in the car? If the floors are intact and fairly rust free, I think you'll probably be OK. You could cut the floor rails out in one day, just drive it easy after that. Tape up the opening to the forward frame rail to keep out moisture and debris while you drive it. Grind/cut off the existing rails, and fab some new ones out of appropriate sized square tubing (I think 2"X2" would work). Chip off the underbody material for about 2" on either side of the rails, put something heavy on the floorboards and use a bottle jack to force the new rails against the bottom of the chassis. Spot weld everything in place about every 6 to 8 inches, keeping everything lined up. Once everything is spotted in, just add more spot weld until the whole thing is welded. Trying to run long beads on the floorboards will most likely just cause a lot of burn through and holes, and warp the floors quite a bit. You could probably spread it out over 4 or 5 days: Day 1, remove drivers side rail and prep area for welding. Day 2, fab rail, weld in place. Day 3 and 4 same for passenger side. The car should be OK for a while without the rails, obviously they aren't offering much support right now in their present condition. I've always questioned the need for the rails under the floor pans anyway. The 280 rails probably add some degree of chassis strength, but the rails on the early 240's were very thin, and only came back to the area just under the seats instead of all the way to the rear frame like the 280 rails. These could not possibly add a significant degree of strength, but the 240's drove around with them like that for 30+ years. To summarize, I say go for it

 

Mike

[Pop N Wood]

Man, you guys are maniacs. No way you could replace floor boards in a day.

 

Read through some old posts. There is ALWAYS more rust than you think. I think it would take a full day of cutting just to determine how much you really need to remove. You will need to move fuel lines, brake lines, carpet, undercoat, seats, seat belts, etc. And remember you will be doing all of this flat on your back while scraping rust chips out of your eyes.

 

Don't just speculate. Find one person who has done it in a day (or even weekend). Highly doubtful.

[Guest Z-fried]

I have to agree with Tim and Pop n Wood. I have done a large amount of sheet metal and framework and I don't think I could complete this job in a day. The problems don't exist in the time it takes to weld and replace the metal, it's making sure that everything is replaced correctly. Trust me, this is one part of your car that you do not want to warp or replace incorrectly because it can throw a lot of things out wack.

 

This is a job I would take my time and make sure it is done right. If you had another vehicle to drive then I would say go for it, the car is repairable, but not while it is being driven. Good luck.

 

Scott

[love-my-V8-280Z]

You will regret trying to work on your car and drive it I promise.

once you get started it never goes as planed. My dad always said if you think it will take 4 hours give it 8...

There is no way,,,,

I had to weld my frame rails, I had carpet burning.... than it looked like crap so I fiberglassed over the new metal... I too am an inexperenced welder...

Its turning out, but if you want a good job take your time and do it right.

[Dan Juday]

Wot, you live in NorCal, hold out for a better Z. There are 280's out here with a lot less rust than that car. If this were Michigan than that one would be a real find, but not here.

 

Keep in mind that if your swap is in a '75 or later you will have to deal with smog.

 

The wise thing to do is wait untill you are in a position to own two cars so you're daily driver is not your project car.

 

MHO would be to find a nice clean, well running '77 or '78 and drive it for a few years untill you can get another car to drive while working on the Z. By that time it will be smog exempt and your swap will be worry free of legal entanglements.

[jvanen]

Well I would Advise Against it. Drive the car while working on it? And we are dealing with some decent to serious rust. We all know that you will find more rust than anticipated. You want to do a good job right? Its possible to do a one floor board a day. Hard though if you have serious rust. What if You can't get it off the lift that day?

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to sound so pesismistic about the Job, With plenty of planning I think you can do it, just be careful!

 

boost on,

[Z-TARD]

I'm gonna continue to be the lone voice of insanity here. From the pictures it looks like the metal of the floorboards themselves looks to be intact for the most part, just the rail is eaten away. I'd check the rail forward of the floorboards as well just to be sure. If there is rust in the engine bay frame rails, run away. Obviously you'll have to pull up all your carpet in that area. There is a lot of underbody coating as well on the floorboards, like sheets of asphalt kind of. A heat gun and paint scraper will have them out in a few hours. No more stuff to burn inside the car The rails under the car are welded like everything else on a datsun, lots of little spot welds. Once the undercoating on the underside of the car has been chipped off as well, you'll be able to see where the spot welds are, they'll look like little dimples every few inches. They make a special drill bit to cut them out, if you can find one. I've found that a dremel with a 1" abrasive disc works pretty well too. when you grind through the first layer of metal, you'll see a well defined circle appear. watch carefully for this or you'll end up grinding right through the floor after all the spot welds are cut, make some cuts at either end of the frame rail where it attaches to the subframes, and it should pop off with a little elbow grease and a chisel. The floorboards on the 280 aren't really level from front to back, there are a few depressions, etc. so you'll have some gaps between the floorboards and the new frame rails. spot weld any part of the floor that touches the new rail. I suppose you could even hammer the floors flat to weld the entire length to the new rail, but I don't think it would be worth the effort. And, no, you won't be able to do this in a day, but it IS possible to do it while still being able to drive the car. Count on this taking at least 4 days. Anyway, the voices in my head have told me to stop typing now. My head starts to hurt when I argue with them......

 

Mike

[datsunlover]

When I got my Z (280) the floor pans had already been instaled. BUT: not completed properly. I had to finish the front areas in both foot wells/rocker panel (actually, most of these spots were GONE.. ), a few spots where the floors join the rockers, and a few spots at the back. Just that took me about a week. Then another week or so to weld in the frame conectors. (I just cut the bottom off of the stock 'rail' and slid 2X2 sq. tube up in there) IMHO evrything is fixxable.. but I don't agree with driving while doing this kind of fix.. I had mine on 6 stands, and I was woried about it just SITTING like that.. it actually did flex the car a bit, but now its good again, thanks to the subframe.

[wheelman]

MrWOT,

I have to come down on the side of this is not a 1 day job.

My experince is similar to yours, lots of engine work, no body or welding experience. I'm in the process of replacing the entire battery box, passenger footwell and drivers footwell on my 240. I have't taken any welding classes but have read a couple books. I'm finding out that welding the thin sheet even with a good MIG using gas and solid wire takes a lot of practice and patience. It's hard to run long beads without burning through and when you do burn through, resist the temptation to immediately try and fill it. I've been working on mine for the last 2 weeks for a couple hours every day. It takes time to do it right. I've made some mistakes and have learned alot but I'm not under pressure to get it done so I can drive it.

 

I would also say that driving it with the frame rails removed or half installed is asking for more problems than it's worth. You are intending the repair the car by removing the rust but run a good chance of tweeking something by driving it with structural members not in place.

 

I also agree with Dan about finding a Z with less rust that won't have complications with smog laws. California is dry enough that if you're patient you should be able to find a Z with much less rust that you would be able to drive and work on at the same time.

 

Just my $.02 worth.

 

BTW: If you decide to buy a welder be sure to get a good one, it will make a world of difference.

 

Wheelman

[MrWOT]

Thanks all! I really appreciate the input, I tend to have a tendancy to get in over my head when I really want something, so I felt it best to get experienced opinions. Looks like I'll pass on this one, I'll keep an eye out for another. I'll wait until I have some experience with fabrication and welding before I tackle one like this, heck my final goal is to build a full tube frame (see there's that over the head thing again ). Anyway, thanks again all, I can honestly say I've been a member at over 20 car forums, and this one is the best for 'real' support I have seen.