late model vs. old skool

[Guest Ziggy Vulcan]

Ok, as you know, my car is still in the planning stages. I've pretty much decided on fuel injection. The question I have is, do I want to put a Holley MPFI or some other DFI system on an old style block, or do I want to just get an LT1. I want this car to be a daily driver and I'm willing to put in the effort and the $$$ for fuel injection. I will probobly put some kind of forced induction on whether it be nitrous or a supercharger. Either way, I will bolt it to a T-56. Cash is not really much of a factor as I'm willing to save up and buy the good stuff to get everything just right. I really don't want an LS1 as I don't want to deal with instaling it and I personally don't like the look of them. I hope to be making around 500hp with the nitrous or supercharger. As I said this will be a daily driver so I don't know if that's a problem or not.

 

One of my concerns is the aftermarket availability of and for LT1s. I'm not going to leave much of anything stock on whatever motor I put in. Another concern is that I'm not that experienced with custom fabing. I can do some, but I would rather not do much serious stuff. Is an LT1 harder to get in and mount? I also need a fairly strong block to handle the forced induction. The newer the parts the better. Brand new is optimum. I'm willing to pay the extra greens. Any help would be appreciated.

[Guest Anonymous]

I may be wrong but it seems that GM makes a new 383 crate motor(?).Check some of these GM motors out.Vortec heads are great too.The GM motors are new with a warranty. Go with the Holley fuel injection considering your self reported skills.

[Guest Phil1934]

This warranty does not apply to any medium or heavy-duty truck. Nor does it apply to any GM Goodwrench engine that is installed in any vehicle that it was not intended for by GM specifications.

[Guest Z-rific]

How about Edelbrock crate motor then?

[Guest Z-rific]

Wait, Edelbrock's dont have FI, I don't think. But you can add an aftermarket FI system that works with 4bbl carbs. Holley has one called Commander TBI.

 

Several reputable companies sell crate motors delivering HP in the 400's. Designed to be streetable and run on pump gas.

[Guest Ziggy Vulcan]

I can put the parts together, it doesn't really have to be a crate engine. What I meant by fabrication was making my own parts. Still, with that I can probobly tinker with some prototypes and eventually get it right. My main question was whether to go with the old style block or the newer LT1. I can put fuel injection on either one. I will probobly build or rebuild the engine with new parts to get it the way I want it. Which is why I'm concerned with aftermarket availability for LT1s. I was just looking for opinions as to which was better or personal experiences that stood out. From what I've heard in my last post and my research is that direct electronic fuel injection is the way to go. This is the same type of thing.

 

One reason I like the old blocks is you can get a lot of aftermarket things that work with them. From what I've seen, LT1s don't seem to have that kind of following. On the other hand, LT1s have the newer design and technology. I'm simply looking for opinions and info as to which would be better for my car. Which, by the way, is gonna be a 240.

[Mudge]

LT1 will be cheaper, and unless your going to run above 7,000 RPM I think its the way to go, uhh should I say "way cheaper?".

 

If your going to run a blower/turbo on it, there are ways of working around the MAP limitation, especially since WOT is open loop anyway.

[MAYHEM]

Another option, Bad Butt motors. I've seen them at work in the UK, very impressive.

[Guest Ziggy Vulcan]

Well, either way, it's going to have a similar TPI system. Whether it be a modified LT1 system or a Holley MPFI system on an old block. BTW, will the LT1 manifold fit on the old style heads and block? That would be cool. Probobly not though.

 

I can and will build an engine, if I wasn't clear before. I just didn't want to fabricate my own parts (like mounts) which I'm sure with practice I can do if it's necessary. I want to build the engine because I want to put high quality parts in it. Like, JE pistons, crower rods, maybe edlebrock heads, and so on. The question is whether to base it on an LT1 or 350 sbc.

 

The LT1 has an aluminum block, correct? Which means it is lighter than an iron block 350. This also raises questions of strength. I plan to make 500 horsepower or more, so the strength of an aluminum block becomes questionable. Aftermarket availability is an issue (as I have pointed out), because I want to build the engine. However, the LT1 benifits from modern knowledge and technology. (also tighter emissions)

 

So I guess currently the scale is tipping toword the old style but I guess I was just looking for opinions and experience with it. I have seen darius's LT1 and It looks schweet. That's one of the reasons I was looking into LT1s. His car is cool.

 

Just writing this has started to convince me to go old skool.

[Guest JAMIE T]

ALL LT1's have Iron blocks. But, the heads on the F-body's and Vettes are aluminum. The Impala SS's have Iron heads. When I put the V8 in MY car it WILL be the LT1 from my own Z28. If you are worried about aftermarket intakes and such for the LT1, WHY BOTHER!!! No one makes an aftermarket off-the-shelf manifold for the LT1 becuase there is NOTHING WRONG WITH THE STOCK ONE. Hogan makes sweet custom intakes, but you'd better have your ducks in a row for that puppy. It is serious race hardware.

[Guest Ziggy Vulcan]

My mistake about the block. By aftermarket I ment heads, bottom end, injectors, and cam. I agree there's nothing wrong with the stock manifold.

[SpeedRacer]

Looks like only a couple of GM Performance crate motors come with FI http://www.paceparts.com/subcatmfgprod.asp?0=239&1=241&2=-1

 

BTW, they do come with a GM Warranty no matter what you put them in as long as you don't "race" them.

[SpeedRacer]

Oh yeah - can you believe that GM sells a brand new 330 horsepower 350 HO SBC crate motor for $2,219.17 ???????

 

http://www.paceparts.com/product.asp?0=239&1=241&3=886

[MAYHEM]

You might find this interesting, Ziggy Vulcan. If you want to also try something different. Vry good read. ANd with a Holley FI I don't think you would be dissappointed. Just a thought.

[Guest Ziggy Vulcan]

That was a very interesting read. I personally don't know if I can get all that custom machining and stuff done but it's a very interesting concept that making rods longer produces that much benifit. However, for me, I'm going with off the shelf JEs. I'm also not held by such tight budget constraints and since my car will be pre 73, I hope to be emissions exempt (I know they are in Cali, but I'm in The South)

 

I do hope to make an engine that will have fairly low compression and drivable cam characteristics, put on to a very strong block, bottom end, and head settup, then shoot it with a very large nitrous system or supercharger (probobly nitrous). I'm hoping to make an engine that is mild and tame (reasonably ) that can become a monster on a whim.

 

I was tinkering with some ideas in my head about this, I could activate the nitrous on an rpm switch at the begining of the powerband (relativly high) and set up a fuel map to compensate at the same rpm. I would have to find some other way to make low end torque though. Still, you don't need a grillion pound feet to move such a small, light car. This idea would be kind of nice seeing as how you would stay in the powerband on the strip, and becomes helpful in passing someone or on on-ramps . It's just an idea though.

 

Old style blocks are looking better and better, as I'm not looking to make very high emissions standards, I do need lots of aftermarket, and they're somewhat simpler.

[Mike C]

Why re-invent the wheel? Just buy a complete donor car with the LT1 and T56. If money is no object, you can buy a NICE low mileage car for around $6500 and sell the shell to offset the cost and not have to worry about any components damaged in an accident. Broken T56s seem to be common after a collision. You are sure to get a well maintained engine and somebody else gets a clean car to make a street strip terror with a BBC The GM is the definition of daily driver and the lack of a distributor through the intake makes the motor look like it was designed for a Z since you don't have to mod the hood latch. If you use the GM computer and wiring that's something else you don't have to buy and if emissions are a consideration where you are at you get all of that stuff as well. Pocket port the heads and add the LT4 HOT cam kit ($500 for cam, springs, retainers, and 1.6 roller rockers, woohoo!)"Keep your Nissan all GM" or something like that... You should get near 400 RWHP which will be awful close to the 500 gross you requested.With the weight of the Z and the size tire of a non-tubbed car, the stock clutch SHOULD even be sufficient. If you add up everything to do a swap, even buying an expensive donor in this scenario, you will still come out WAY ahead of piecemealing it together unless you have the option of time. You can do it REALLY cheap if you can wait years and years for good deals, but if you want it soon break out the wallet! If you get a wreck, you can have everything for less than $3k. There was a '94 Z/28 in the Austin Greensheet last week with body damage for $2000, runs good the ad said. Didn't specify trans, but probably an auto at that price, but you never know.

[Mudge]

Originally posted by Ziggy Vulcan:

Well, either way, it's going to have a similar TPI system. Whether it be a modified LT1 system or a Holley MPFI system on an old block. BTW, will the LT1 manifold fit on the old style heads and block? That would be cool. Probobly not though.

It can be made to fit, and so can the heads. I'll try digging for the info, but it may take me a day or two, or maybe it was www.lt1intake.com but those may be prefabbed (commercial) setups, you need an accurate drilling on the back for the distributor, and I forget what other work (probably cooling passage). I'll try to find info.

[Mudge]

Originally posted by Mike C:

Why re-invent the wheel? Just buy a complete donor car with the LT1 and T56.

I agree with Mike. Unless you really want a carb setup, a car with an OEM computer that you can edit is going to be WAY cheaper than DFI or any other aftermarket setup, even if it means you buying a Typhoon ECM and getting it to work with a turbo/blown V8, it will be cheaper in the long run even if it means some work.

 

The LT1 is a pretty easy to work with setup, so long as once again your staying under 7k RPM, for most any NA car with a moderate cam that is no problem. If your going to run a big arse solid roller, 250+ intake duration, then you may be forced to look elsewhere. If your going to run big low impedance injectors, there are injector boxes you can get for this.

 

Buying a $2500 FI setup and a $1500 computer setup, plus engine though? EEEEEEEESH! Thats not even counting your engine/trans and misc parts yet!

 

The LT1 is moderately cheap and is a pretty good performance solution IMO, I'd love an LS1 but the costs are prohibitive for me.

[Mudge]

Originally posted by JAMIE T:

When I put the V8 in MY car it WILL be the LT1 from my own Z28. If you are worried about aftermarket intakes and such for the LT1, WHY BOTHER!!! No one makes an aftermarket off-the-shelf manifold for the LT1 becuase there is NOTHING WRONG WITH THE STOCK ONE. Hogan makes sweet custom intakes, but you'd better have your ducks in a row for that puppy. It is serious race hardware.

YES YES YES

 

The LT1 intake is a pretty good peice, and any aftermarket that existed was SHORT LIVED. The Hogan intakes go for $1500+ IIRC, you can hack up the LT1 intake by chopping the top if you want to work on it, but I made near about 480 HP just fine NA with the only work being 58mm TB opening, I didn't even raise the runner. I know someone who likewise made the same power with a 230/238 cam, 1 5/8" headers, and a full exaust system (no open headers), 411RWHP.

 

For the SBC generation its a good overall setup, and for the performance/cost its an excellent value.

[Guest Ziggy Vulcan]

Let's think aftermarket engine management.

 

I mean, nothing against stock camaro computers, but would rather not have to mess with diagnostic ports and having to revamp a stock unit so I can control it. Things like AEM engine management systems have a lot to offer.

 

Ok, I don't really want to have to buy two cars and stickem together for lack of a better term. Although, it seems everyone here would go with an LT1, correct? I really do like the intake manafold, however, getting aftermarket heads to fit it is a little tough. Putting it on an old block and heads is cool, but complicated.

 

Once again, me and my creativity have set in, how much trouble would it be to make a manifold of sorts? not like complicated manifolds that you see here, like, okay. Just by chance, has anyone here picked up the January 2003 issue of Popular Hot Rodding? There is a 62 Impala in it that has a manifold on a 409 that is esentialy two big tubes that feed straight down into the heads and the other ends run to separate cone filters behind the headlights. I want to do the same thing, only on the small block, much lower profile (for those who have the issue) and put the cone filters infront of the radiator behind the grill and pretty far outboard. I came up with a tube that worked kinda like a/c ducts in a big buildings. The tube gets smaller to ensure even air distribution. Like say I had 2 3" tubes, one feeding each side. Well, it would split of into four smaller tubes in the regular manifold spot and the main tube would get 0.75" inches smaller at each tube that comes of going to the heads so that all the cylanders get equal air. I then put fuel rails on next to the heads in about their normal position. I would make the main tubes as straight as I could to ensure ram air qualities. I don't know what I would make the pipes out of but I would want it to look good as it would be the centerpiece of the engine. Did that make any sense? I don't have a scanner so I can't post a pic (don't have anyone to host it anyway). I would probobly have to get someone else to make these for me but it would end up very trick and efficient in a simple way. (BTW, I would put that thing on an old style setup)

 

Okay, THAT would start to get complicated but it's a good idea. Another, much simpler idea is to get a holley commander setup (not MPFI) and put a big Mr. Gasket street scoop on it to come through the hood. That's what I originally wanted to do, but I didn't know how the scoop would look on the car. From what I was visualizing, it didn't look like it would fit with the asthetics of the car, but I was only working with pictures online. I thought that would be a cool idea to be different.

 

I kinda like old blocks due to their versatility when it comes to upgrades. It seems like most people here like LT1s better. Any particular reason I should know about?