Mountiong LS1 into 1971

[maichor]

Originally posted by cyrus:

Yes motor mounts it will hit... I will cut . Varible speed... whats that?

 

cyrus

Truthfully, I don't know. I was told that it runs differently than older compressors and won't work with our stuff. That came from a guy trying to sell me a new one, so . . .

 

I know Lonestar1 used the Sandon? Sanden? compressor. Maybe he could tell you why he did it.

[maichor]

I want to test my free web stuff. I put some pictures of my setup at:

 

www.geocities.com/maichor75104/index.html

 

!!WARNING!! These pictures are large files!

I will take some more pics of the cross member with the motor out of the car. I can email anyone who wants to see them.

 

P.S. Lonestar 1 and Jeromio had to cut the flanges off, rotate them, and weld new pieces on. No converters.

[cyrus]

I am using the 2001 cast iron exhaust has anyone found a way of using it?

 

cyrus

[cyrus]

... and the converters?

 

cyrus

[cyrus]

maichor,

 

good pics. Did you cut the oringinal z engine mounting towers? If my steering shaft clears the cast iron exhaust manifold and motor mount it will be a mircle.

 

Where did you get the headers?

 

cyrus

[maichor]

I removed the engine mount towers. I also cut off the old rack mounts because I am converting to power steering.

 

The headers are from Street and Performance. The driver's side is their "G-body Monte Carlo" style and the passenger's is called "tight tuck." They are going to modify the driver's side a little so that the vibration link at the upper joint clears. Other than that, everything fits.

 

I turned the stock cross member around. I did this for 2 reasons:

 

1) It allowed me to weld a piece of 1" tubing directly to the cross member to mount the Ford steering rack. Correct spacing with less grinding.

 

2) I can now weld or bolt my fabricated cross member to the original.

[jeromio]

What kind of rack is that, Mustang? Those Al. motor mounts look nice.

 

Not sure what to think about this "variable speed" compressor thing.All compressors on cars are variable speed - higher engine rpms, higher compressor speed. The only issue I see with using the camaro compressor is that the fittings may be hard to match up, but I'm not too worried about that (A/C will be like the last thing I get to). I haven't tried putting the compressor on with motor in the car.

 

I did mount the alt though and it fit fine - no steering interference. I thought about doing it the way you are going - with the extra cross member. Certainly looks more straight forward. Had I known about those cast biscuit mounts, I might've gone that way.

 

Vacations have eaten into my car time (just got back from the beach). Gonna try and mount my PCM today (up inside the passenger footwell is my plan). I had to wait to get my T56 shipped (since no one was here to sign for it). Still gotta get a clutch and master/slave.

 

Also, the exhaust on the passenger side is soooo tight. I had it laid out, but could not figure out how/where to put the flange. I guess I'll put it low, below the frame, and then just add "remove starter" to the list of things to do when R&R'ing the exhaust. I can't even begin to imagine putting headers on this thing.

[Phantom]

Reading all these posts tells me I had better think things through VERY thoroghly before starting to weld things in place. Just engine location alone requires the following decisions and considerations.

1) Am I going to use power steering or not -

tells me how many accessories I have to find a

place to locate.

2) Need to set engine to allow exhaust to clear

the steering member on the driver's side.

3) Need to allow for clearing the starter on the

passenger side.

4) If using the stock A/C system I need to mount

the engine far enough forward to allow for the

A/C plumbing behind it.

5) Same consideration for the heater core

plumbing/hoses.

6) Engine needs to sit low enough to clear

hood/strut tower brace but not so low as to

overly expose the oil pan.

7) How does this all affect the location of the

transmission mount and shifter? don't want to

have to reshape the tunnel too much or carve

on the shifter opening in the tunnel or

console.

I've seen/heard of several different approaches to many of these problems. I see, however, that a creative solution to one might exascerbate one of the other problems. This is going to require some real head scratching - and I haven't even gotten to the gauges yet!

Ideally there will be a way for the A/C compressor to mount on the drivers side with the alternator on the passenger side which will simplify plumbing a bit - really don't want A/C & heater core plumbing all routing down the same side. Also need to have space to keep the solenoid vacuum controls for the A/C controls inside the car. If it doesn't work, however, I'll find a workable alternative. Right now I'm looking at running an R-12 compatible compressor to reduce the variables of converting a 25 yr. old system. The higher pressures and smaller molecules of the 134a may be more than the connections in my copper piping can take without leaking like a sieve. enough for now.

[maichor]

Hey Jeromio,

 

The rack is from a 1984 Ford Thunderbird. Terry Oxandale (blueovalz) wrote up his PS conversion and I went from there.

 

I guess those aluminum mount towers come stock on Corvettes. However, that info came from the same guy that told me the AC compressor won't work for me. I will have to ask him why. He has done 4 LS1 swaps into different vehicles, but not into a Z. I'll let you know what I find out.

 

I will try to keep adding photos as I go at:

 

www.geocities.com/maichor75104/

 

Good luck guys!

[Guest Anonymous]

I'm sure you guys have thought this through, but thought I'd add it just in case you hadn't. Another U-joint in the steering shaft that goes left and is anchored to the frame rails and then continues down to either the stock rack or the Ford rack might buy you a little extra manifold room. Its pretty common practice in alot of tight engine swap engine bays. Of course as with anything, what buys clearance in one place may cause problems in others. You guys are brave I give you that, this doesn't sound like a drop in at all. Good luck and keep those pictures coming, very much worth it for future swaps, the old SBC JTR swap is slowly getting replaced by these more desirable swaps both from a performance and weight standpoint.

 

Regards,

 

Lone

[maichor]

Very good point. I have thought of that. I ordered a catalog from Borgeson for that very reason. They also sell a cv style joint that works fine at angles up to 70 degrees.

 

I can make things work the way I have them now. However, if I added the extra U-joint, I could use the center dump headers on both sides, That is a very clean look and has no other problems with my setup. I just don't know the cost yet.

 

P.S. Here is a pic of the mounts I got from S&P

[cyrus]

Hello,

 

Thanks Phantom , maichor, DKR, Helldrives and others. This has turned in to LS1 swap centeral

 

I am going to do maichor mounting with a cross member:

 

1 my ac hits the frame, can the bracket be milled?

2 will the vette motor mounts interfer with accessories

3 with a T56 where do i have to bash the tunnel

 

thanks

 

cyrus

[maichor]

1) I am going to see if I can modify the AC bracket. I'm sure somebody could do it.

2) All accessoies clear the mounts.

3) Some people say they didn't have to widen the tunnel. I widened the tunnel and cut off a few of the cooling fins on the trans. That was to get the motor way over to the passenger's side. JTR setup is 3/4" to that side as was the stock motor. However, When I went to fit my headers, I moved the motor back toward the center. I only have about a 1/4" offset now.

[Guest DRK]

Hey guys I am following along your progress since I am planning the same swap soon hopefully(right only have the car, 78-280Z). I was on S&P's website and spotted this pulley configuration which appears to have the AC compressor closer to the crank than the stock setup, and the alternator mounted directly above in front of the passenger side valve cover. Would only need to delete the PS pump from the assembly.

 

I cannot figure out how to paste the picture here. Copy and paste does not seem to work here, any one help? I will post it.

 

sorry

[maichor]

Here ya go! If you right click and select properties, copy the web address for the photo and then go to the board and click on image. Paste the web address of the photo.

 

Mark, owner of S&P said you can keep the stock PS with this setup. The AC is about 2" tighter than stock.

[cyrus]

I machined my AC bracket 0.200" on the compressor side and 0.250" on the engine side.

 

I will mount the engine this weekend using maichor's way.

 

What radiatior are people using?

Does the lower outlet hose (has thermostat), go to the bottom the raditator?

 

cyrus

[Phantom]

I think I'm going to mount my LS-1 about 2" forward of the firewall - for the following reasons:

1) It leaves enough room between the two for

access to the A/C & heater hose connections.

2) It allows for a bit of an air gap to reduce

engine heat load on the firewall and help keep

the drivers compartment cooler.

3) It moves the exhaust further away from the

steering knuckle.

4) It puts the T-56 shifter closer to the center

of the existing hole in the transmission

tunnel.

5) It also makes a bit more space for fitting the

T-56 into the transmission tunnel.

6) It should allow a little more clearance

between the strut towers and accessories to

make for easier mounting of the accessories.

7) Since it's an all aluminum block engine I'm

not concerned about a negative PMOI effect -

especially since the car could still end up

weight biased to the rear and it's really

going to primarily be a daily driver - not a

racer.

8) I'm staying with manual steering so don't need

to adjust to make clearance for a power

steering rack.

Anyone see any holes in this reasoning?

[jeromio]

My motor is currently out of the car, so it's hard to remember just how far forward of the firewall it sits. I think mine is setup to be about 1/2 inch forward of Lonestar1's setup, and I believe his is identical to JTR. If I remember correctly, if you attach a string between the 2 forward strut tower bolts, it would pass directly over my EGR fitting in the intake.

 

1) It leaves enough room between the two for access to the A/C & heater hose connections.

This is probably the only reason to consider moving the motor forward.

 

This point:

3) It moves the exhaust further away from the steering knuckle.

is sort of confusing. The steering "knuckle" - that's the rubber isolator? For me, this is not in the way at all. Anyway, the real killer interferer is the steering shaft itself. Moving the engine farther forward is going to worsen your interference problem. I moved mine forward due to 4L60E clearance problems and heater inlet clearance (I have 280z HVAC). But that 1/2 inch has really hurt me on the steering shaft. I moved it over by about 3/8inch, but now that's not enough. I'm going to have to move it over more (not sure if I can move it more than another 1/4 inch) and also muck with the exhaust manifold.

 

To sum that one up, the shaft gets closer the farther forward the motor goes. This is bad. I think Gary mentioned moving his column over by 3/8 and that was plenty for him.

 

4) It puts the T-56 shifter closer to the center of the existing hole in the transmission

tunnel.

5) It also makes a bit more space for fitting the

T-56 into the transmission tunnel.

T56 is not a big fat pig like the A4. I don't think clearance is a problem (although I haven't got mine yet). And that sheet metal can probably be cut with scissors - I had to cut mine for the L28 5 spd and it was really not difficult.

 

6) It should allow a little more clearance between the strut towers and accessories to make for easier mounting of the accessories.

You're still stuck with the frame rails being in the way. Unless you plan on buying the pricey high mount brackets.

 

7) Since it's an all aluminum block engine I'm not concerned about a negative PMOI effect - especially since the car could still end up weight biased to the rear and it's really going to primarily be a daily driver - not a racer.

This is what I was thinking when I decided to move mine up 1/2 inch. I guess the point of my post is that I now have some regrets about this. The more I think about it, it would've been simpler to optimize engine placement, giving zero consideration to HVAC (which I'm leaving for last anyway). Then, I could've taken HVAC on as a separate project and would probably have just gone with a superior aftermarket system that would work better anyway.

[Phantom]

A few extra points.

It's important to consider the affects of engine heat on the cabin and the equipment under the dash. A reason to move the engine forward somewhat.

The T-56 installation posts I've read all talk about pounding out the transmission tunnel - even sometimes cutting some of the cooling fins off the transmission in order to get it to fit. I am not going to cut cooling fins on the transmission. I'm in Texas - it needs the fins. Plus - remember - the exhaust is going to be routing through here too - giving off all kinds of heat for the transmission to pick u and requiring space. More reasons to move the engine forward a bit.

It may be easy to just tin snip out the transmission tunnel for the shifter but what about the console? I don't want to cut mine up. It won't look right and I'll be having to get a custom shifter boot, a custom tunnel seal, etc. Another reason to move it forward some.

Giving more room for the T-56 also makes it more feasible to passenger-side shift the engine a bit to help clear the steering shaft.

Actually, if they will clear the hood I'd rather high mount my accessories because then they are more accessable for maintenance and are less likely to cook than being down in the valley.

While we're on the A/C system (mines a 280Z also) I've observed an interesting phenomenum. When it's cool outside the air coming out of the vents in the car I'm driving now is a lot colder than when it's hot. Duh! but stay with me. This is in a ZX that recircs the inside air so the colder air is a function of the heat exchange going on at the condenser. What my Z really needs is a larger condenser and the stock system will make colder air (Don't think Nissan designed for Texas)and I won't have to spring for an aftermarket system. That's a lot more expensive than high mount brackets for the accessories.

[Phantom]

I've seen them as close as 1/2" from the firewall. Look at the whole installation, engine and trans, when you do the trial fit and put it where it seems to go best for your needs.