How do I set this timing? NOT STOCK

[Guest iskone]

I have a crank trigger distributor. I know the idea is to adjust the timing with the trigger wheel at the base of the dis. but I can't get the timing right on.

I've made calls and searched around, no help.

 

I may sound stupid, but how would I go about using a timing gun with this setup?

 

Here are some pics I know they suck, I had to use my cellphone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, how do a post a pic in a thread now?

 

Isk

[GabeRoc]

links are dead for me.

[Guest iskone]

Here is a link to my album on hybridz

http://album.hybridz.org/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=8740

 

If that doesn't work they can be seached for in the album with the key word crank, trigger or both.

 

Isk

[JMortensen]

In the second picture it looks like there is a set screw on near the base of the distributor right next to the timing marks. Can you loosen the set screw and rotate the dizzy? It also looks like there is a mark right there too. So you probably set the timing by loosening the set screw, revving the car to 3000 or so, then setting the total advance. It looks like you would set it at 35* or whatever total advance you want.

 

That is an interesting setup. I've never seen it before, but it would get rid of all the slop from the gears that run off of the crank. Do you know who makes it? Can you still get parts?

 

When you get your V8 installed I may know a buyer....

[Guest iskone]

Well when the crank mounted pully came loose I and the belt started slipping here's what I did.

 

When you look at the pully that has the timing marks on it you can see the to "discs" that are on either side of the teeth. The discs each have 6 screws holding them onto the teeth. I removed all the screws and then spun the wheel to set my timing.

 

I did all of this without a timing gun (as I do not own one). I don't know if a timing gun is going to work. I was hoping someone with some experence with this setup could chime in. I THINK I would just point the gun at the wheel and I should be able to read where the timing is set. Thoughts???

 

As far as the setup is concerned, it is SWEET!!!!

I bought the car from a guy who bought it from a machinist or engineer of some sort. As far as I can tell it is a one off set up. I have wondered what I could sell the drivetrain for though, it is pretty built.

 

If you want to take a look at the crank trigger setup I'd be more than happy to let you get a good look at it, or anyone in my area for that matter. Now that I have a sweet Z I'd like to show her off a bit. LOL

But really I think my setup is repeatable with some fab skills.

[JMortensen]

Since no one else seems to be willing to speculate, I would suggest that you need to find the pointer in order to use the timing light. On the stock timing cover there is a pointer that points to the marks on the balancer. On your setup there has to be some sort of pointer as well. I suppose you could just play with it on a dyno until you get it close, but if you can figure out where the pointer is then you can set it exactly.

 

Maybe it's just the picture but it sure looks like there is a line which could be the pointer directly opposite the "M" on the belt in your 3rd picture. As far as adjusting it if that set screw doesn't allow the distributor to rotate then I guess you have to disassemble it like you've been doing, but it really looks like that allen head screw holds the clamp down around the distributor housing from the picture.

[Guest iskone]

Ya I'm really hoping that when I loosen up that screw I can turn the dis.

There is a groove cut into the case, it's about as wide as 5* on the wheel so I'll have to play with it to figure out what side of the groove to use.

 

I was talking to a buddy of mine at shucks and he said I could use a vacum gauge to fine tune it. Just set it when I get the most vacum.

 

Thanks

Isk

[spotfitz]

With the degree numbers behind the dist. pulley it appears that you would need to find TDC on the motor and find 360* on the dist.(right now sitting at 270* from TDC) This would indicate which spark plug wire would go on the first number in the firing sequence, which is the wire the rotor would be pointing to at the time of TDC. This all assuming the belt is set properly between the crank and dist. I think a timing light would still work with this setup. The timing light would still flash at the right time to show what degree on the wheel you have it set for.

This ofcourse is speculation, but it makes since to me? LOL

This is a slick set up. I would love to have more details on it.

I think jmortensen is correct on the turning of the dist. The set screw almost looks like a rod cap type configuration to hold the dist. in place. There probably is another screw located just below it.

[Guest iskone]

That's how Igot the timing set the first time. I just shoved my finger in number one, cranked it until it poped out. After that we spun the wheel to point to number one wich put the numbers on the wheel lining up with the grove at 220*, tried to fire and nothing happened so I did what I thought wwas advance it by turning the wheel numerical higher(counter clockwise). That was worse so I went numericaly smaller(clockwise).

 

It runs with the timing set the way it is now, just misses often. I want to dial it in and make a timing pointer at TDC so I can have an accurate way to adjust the timing. The screw on the body has to some kind of clamp! I hope.

 

Would it better to put a hose or something in number 1 instead of a pinky?

 

When I do some work on the car that requires me to put her away for a week or two I'll pull apart my ignition setup and take some pics. I kind of want to do it right now(this is where I would insert a sinster smilly, LOL)

I'll just wait till there is alot of rain.

 

Thanks

Isk

[Guest iskone]

I dinked with the timing all weekend heres where I stand.

 

I got the high RPM miss problem solved and it doesn't ever stutter.

Runs great when on high RPM but for some reason when I first step on the gas in any gear it makes a bogged out noise, kind of like what a big ass diesel sounds like and pings.

 

So why would it be doiong that? My carbs couldn't be too lean since they are rich as $hit at the moment.

 

The screws on the side were set screws and I was able to turn the dis. after loosening them.

 

Isk

[JMortensen]

MORE OCTANE. I thought it was weird that you could run 92 with 11.5:1 compression. I'm running ~11:1 and I need about 95 octane to keep from pinging. Search the web for "octane booster home brew" which is basically going to be a mix of Tolulene or Xylene which you can get from the paint store and ATF and mineral spirits. Or just get some 100 octane AV gas from the local airport and mix 50/50 with 92. Or just buy some race gas and mix that with the 92. I've done all three, my car really likes the AV gas for some reason.

 

I've been thinking about your pointer. I think when you took the discs out you f'ed up the alignment of the degree wheel and the distributor shaft. This is my suggestion of how to fix (assuming you can't put it back the way it was and figure out how it was meant to be used in the first place):

 

1. Find TDC #1. Use a pen or a welding rod--not a pencil or anything else that might break off in the chamber for whatever reason--you slip or something dumb like that. I once managed to use a dial indicator thru the spark plug hole but it was a machinist's dial indicator with a very long plunger, and a regular one won't work. Use a dial indicator if possible, much more accurate. Make sure you get to the middle of the dead area, there should be a few degrees where your pen doesn't move.

2. Aim the center of the rotor right at the #1 terminal on the cap (as close as you can).

3. Spin the degree wheel until it registers 0* straight up.

4. Figure out a mark on the clamp that you can use to aim the distributor. If there isn't a good one, use a chisel to make one. I still think there should be one on there that isn't 5* wide.

5. Time to ~35*BTDC at 3000 rpm. I don't know if this would be 35* or 325* on your degree wheel. I would think that it would be 35*.

6. Check timing at idle just for kicks, should be somewhere in the 15-20 degree range.

 

This won't be dead on accurate, but it should be fairly close. You might want to get some other opinions too. I'm sure Drax240z, John Coffey or some of the other L6 guys around here might have some useful suggestions for you. Oh, and get a timing light. $20 from Harbor Freight, if you want the one with digital advance your talking ~$35.

[Guest iskone]

I basicly did all the steps you mentioned, a little less high tec of course. I used my thumb till it blew off. I made a new mark with a sharpie. and at idle I'm right around 15-20*

The zero on the wheel isn't lined up with the rotor. I don't know if it needs to be but I think it should.

I also bought a new cap and rotor since I was told it was for a 81' supra, NOT the rotor I have has a set screw but not the one I just bought I'll drill a hole if I have too.

 

As for the the octane. It ran fine before I vibrated that nut loose at 120+ for a mile or so(gotta drive like it's stolen when you first buy it, right?)

So I don't know why the octane would be acting up now. When I put in the first tank of gas I just used all 92 because I had no choice. Right now I've got 92 and 108 Turbo Octane Boost in.

 

I'm going to go through the whole process again but try to be VERY precise with finding TDC. I've been reading about tunning the webers too, they could be to lean on idle, off idle transition and too rich on WOT.

 

I talked to the Z Man at Z Specialties he sounded like he could set it up for me but I'd have to wait forever till he could see me plus drop a few bills.

 

I wish I knew a guy over here in Bremerton I trusted with Z's

 

Isk

[Cody 82 ZXT]

Is it possibly running to rich at idle causing the low RPM miss?

 

Also wheres the alternator?

[JMortensen]

As for the the octane. It ran fine before I vibrated that nut loose at 120+ for a mile or so(gotta drive like it's stolen when you first buy it' date=' right?)

So I don't know why the octane would be acting up now. When I put in the first tank of gas I just used all 92 because I had no choice. Right now I've got 92 and 108 Turbo Octane Boost in.

Isk[/quote']

 

 

Octane doesn't really act up. You either need it or you don't.

 

Read the octane boost bottle. It will tell you that it will bump your octane one point. What that means is it that it will bump you from 92 to 92.1. There just isn't enough booster in there to do anything. If you want to try more octane you're going to have to buy 15 of those bottles of octane boost at $8 per bottle or you're going to have to try mixing your own.

[Guest iskone]

The altanator is on the exhaust side.

I do need to work with the fuel mixture, it runs way too rich my plugs are covered in soot after about a week. When I was working on the timing I fouled 2 sets from all the pumping and missfiring.

 

I'm gonna start with the carbs since I got it running then work on the timing again if needed and probably back to the carbs if I have to get drastic with the timing.

 

A guy at my work has a blending book that he is gonna let me borrow. I'll try that route as well.

It will have to wait till sunday though, got to be with the family for christmas.

 

Isk

[Cody 82 ZXT]

If your looking to up the octane for less money then mix in some tolune (sp). It can be found at Lowes or Home Depot by the gallon.

 

It's 114 octane by itself and is the main ingrediant in many of the over the counter octane boosters. I've run it in about 30% mixture and it works wonders on my turbo car. Lets me go from running 16 or 17 psi to over 20 psi.

[Guest iskone]

Well I got to work on her today, here's the write up!

I reset the #1 to TDC pulled off the belt and took off the cap. I was able to line up 0 on the degree wheel with the rotor(4 bolts came loose and allowed the timing marks to spin without the rotor). Lined up the rotor with #1 on the cap and got the whole thing back together. Set timing at 33-34*, why 34* because my dis wouldn't turn any further since it was hitting the block and where I was able to make a timing indicator mark was the best place for accuracy. I think I'm going to grind down the spot taht hits the blcok so I can turn it more.

 

All seemed fine at first ran smooth and pulled hard with a faint knock just for a second when I floored it. The knock got worse as the night went on and the car got hotter. So tomorrow I'm headed down to the hardware store to buy the stuff to make homebrew.

 

I'd like to try the following recipe on a five gallon scale

100 oz of toulene for octane boost

25 oz of mineral spirits (cleaning agent)

3 oz of transmission fluid (lubricating agent)

 

I was thinking of using 2gal that should be almost 95 octane, hope it works.

 

Oh and my freaking starter when out today too.

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?p=510099#post510099

 

Thanks for the help!!

Isk

[Guest iskone]

I made some octane boost here is the recipe and results

1 gal Xylene(i couldn't get toluene)

1 qt mineral spirits

4 oz ATF

 

I had about 5 gallons of 92 in the tank giving me a 20% mixture, about.

Does this soound right to you guys?

Still had knocking on hard acceleration. My carbs are still rich.

 

It looks like I need to fine tune the timing some more and tune the carbs, I hope.

I bought a weber sync tool the kind from Piercew manifolds. When I get that in I'll be able to at least sync up the carbs and start mt tuning. I also have an assortment of jets I can use to fine tune it.

Also my pistons are covered in soot from running rich, not good.

Any suggesttions about what I should do to clean up my motor?

Anything work that I can just dump in the tank? Or will that just cause me more problems?

 

I'd rather not pull apart the motor because I know what will happen, just read my sig.

 

Isk

[JMortensen]

I think that should bump you a little higher than 95, because the Xylene is 118 octane and Tolulene is 114 octane. FWIW Tolulene seems to work better for me than Xylene, but like I said AVgas or racing gas worked the best in my engine.

 

I wouldn't worry about soot on the pistons. If you have big oily crusty buildup then worry, but powdery black soot will blow right out of there when you get it running right. You're running the car on 20% solvent, so I wouldn't bother adding anything to the tank to clean it up.

 

You can retard the timing a bit to help with the pinging, that's one option. You'll lose some power with that one. Another is to try another different octane booster. You could get some race gas and mix it, or try the AV gas.

 

I did have a problem once where I added a gallon of octane booster to 5 gallons already in the tank and the two just didn't seem to mix up. I was at the track and it just kept pinging. I took the car down a side road and jerked the wheel back and forth a lot to slosh the fuel in the tank. Even that didn't seem to help. Then I said screw it and added 5 gallons of 100 octane unleaded and it finally stopped pinging. On other occasions that exact same mix of booster and 92 worked fine. You really have to mix in the booster well IME. I suppose if you wanted to see if that was the problem you could drain the tank into a couple of gas tanks and shake them up really good and dump them back in...

 

Have you put an O2 sensor on there to see what your mixture is like?

[Guest iskone]

LMFAO after reading your mixing technique.

 

Reatard the timing! Lose power!? Are you mad!!!

 

I thought about that but since it all worked before I can get it right one of these days. I'm going to try different ways to boost the octane.

Since I live about 20min from the Bremerton airport I'll just try avgas for now.

 

I thought about Lamda sensors but I can't weld. I'd really like to do the setup in one of David Vizard's books. He puts a Lamda in each primary tube. I know it might be over kill but with an IR setup I could justify it. I would just be worried about disrupting the flow, but then agian I have the 3 into 1 headers with 2 1/4" dual exhuast into dual super trapps.

 

Once my starter gets in I'll be able to get back to work on her. I've also decided to buy an altanator off of the Z man and I think I'm going to get a deep cycle battery. I don't want anymore problems.

 

BTW, Super Trapp's kick some serious ass. I had 12 discs in each muffler at first and it pulled hard with lots of power up top. Now I have 5 discs in each muffler and when in second I rev to 7000 in a heartbeat with a ton of power down low!!!

 

 

Isk