Guest 77vegasz Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I bought a used block on E-bay, 4 bolt 010 casting bored .040 for my 383. I was happy to see when I got it it was in pristine condition. I had it tanked and honed. The motor went together flawlessly. I got it in the Z ran it in, and have been driving it for a week, about 75 miles, when I noticed some smoke comming from the left side pipe. It was antifreeze smoke. I checked the head torque, all was fine, I popped the intake and head off and noticed the antifreeze was coming from cylinder #5. The gasket showed no signs of a leak. I turned the engine over by hand to lower #5 piston, and there it was, a long vertical crak in the cylinder wall. I pulled the engine, tore it down, and now have a reputable local machine shop machining one, and yes this time it will be magnafluxed. Just the luck of the Irish. No one said it was good luck, just that we had allot of it. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quicker240 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Just put a sleeve in it and put it back together.It'll be fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Have it sleeved and slap it back together...... Quicker: looks like you beat me to it while I was posting ...great minds think alike.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Don't sleeve it and slap it together. If you sleeve it it will distort the adjacent cylinders requiring rehone with deck plates to get it round again and you will end up with excessive piston to wall clearance which contributes to oil consumption, ring blow by and loss of power. Your local machine shop probably already told you all that anyway. You are going the right direction, let somebody else sleeve it and slap it together. S*#T Happens! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quicker240 Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Maybe I was a bit to brief to say "just sleeve it and put it back together".I agree with the Doc on the part about having it installed correctly with honing and a deck plate.However I do not agree that you automatically end up with cylinder distortion and excessive oil consumption.Many a small block is out there,including my own with 2 sleeves in it,making great horsepower and adequate durability.Not perfect as a new block,but a hell of a lot cheaper.Other opinions greatly appreciated and respected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarrisonTX Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 you had a block you didnt know, and you didnt have it magnafluxed. sometimes it pays to spend a little more money, it woulda saved you money to spend money. I learned this the hard way also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zfan Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I feel your pain. I just ate another 383 again! I am getting tired of this crap. That said Hang in there!!!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Quicker 240 I was thinking of FI on my next engine with twin turbo's. Mike set me up with a guy who makes exhaust for such. As far as the FI goes, what made you go with Proflo and if you had to do it all over again what would you use? Also, come by sometime and I'll install a sleeve in a junk block and show you how much it makes the adjacent cylinders out of round, typically it's .002, sometimes as much as .004 or as little as .001, but you can't put an interference fit sleeve in a block without some distortion. They used to make a glue in sleeve that used the same technology as the space shuttle that had the glue on tiles on the exterior. Supposed to handle the heat. They quit making that though and I never had any problem with those and they were the only distortion free sleeve I have ever installed. In the old days I used to sleeve all 8 cylinders on 400's in sprint car engines just to save a block, but now they have better aftermarket blocks than production and for the money they are the way to go for high HP foundations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 77vegasz Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I was out for a couple of days, so here is an update: I found a good local shop that had a 010 casting 4 bolt block laying around. They tanked it, magnafluxed the entire block. It was already .030 over, so they are clearancing it for the 383, and honing to .040 over so I can use my rotating assembly. I tore the old one down, and the crank, bearing etc. still look pristine as they only had about 75 miles on them. I used the bi-metal aluminum silicone impregnated bearings wich look great considering alot of water made it into the oil. I was also using Shaffer's soluible Moly oil which held up well. I get the block Thursday and hope to be back on the road, Monday. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quicker240 Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Hope all goes together well for you Vegas.Take comfort in knowing what it could have cost if it was'nt a Chevy motor that took a powder on you.What pushed my decision to sleeve my block in particular was the fact that it was an original 4 bolt high nickel content 400.I can live with .001 cyl deflection on a less than nascar engine although .000 is better.Doc,I chose the proflo for bang for the buck.The Victor manifold is well proven.The kit is complete and easy to install.Uses off the shelf GM sensors.No laptop needed and changes from performance to economy map at the push of a button.Down side is no provision for wide band O2 and comparatively small fuel and ignition maps.28lb injectors only good to around 500hp so you would have to upgrade to 40plus size for twin turbos even at low boost levels.For twins on a pretty healthy budget,I'd say Miniram and Haltech or TechIII, and some serious dyno time.For all the high horsepower Z's I have seen,few have truly put over 600HP to good use.I am anxious to see a completed twin turbo small block Z make multiple passes in person and then putter down to the drivein for a milkshake.Just makes me giggly all over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Well, I guess I'm just a stickler for getting it absolutely spot on every time I build an engine, I'd rather not have "issues" to deal with, especially with customers, and I afford myself the same. One thing that really bugs me is that there seems to be so many members relying on someone else to build an engine and they fall victim to people who don't know what they are doing in the first place. When I was in my teens and twenties I'd only dream of these types of cars due to monetary issues when I worked in a engine machine shop, now money isn't as much of an issue, but time to do it all is, since it interferes with making the money to do it. I've done several blown alky injected engines for boats and drag cars, so I want to do a twin turbo FI engine just to do it, but I was thinking of around 1200HP at the crank 30 psi boost on alky or maybe 20 psi on gas, I'd use my Monte SS as the test bed for that engine which is scheduled for completion July 2005. If that works like I want it to, then I want to do one for my boys z. He's only 10, so I have to drive it until he turns 16, lucky me! You know I don't think he really appreciates what I'm doing, but at least I do.... I think the "drivability" aspect is what is so appealing. I have to remember that a 90 something inch wheelbase car can only effectively handle so much HP. 600 Forced induction is an easily achievable goal with todays heads, my boys NA 357 sbc engine made 650HP on alky already, just got the engine and PG trans installed in the Z this weekend, have a few loose ends to tie up, like fuel lines, shift linkage, exhaust, wiring MSD boxes, delay box, etc. It'll be interesting to see what it can hook up, which is what it's all about. His 260z has 9 inch ford with ladder bars, detroit locker and coilovers so strength isn't an issue, however since the wheel tubs are small, about all we can fit is a 10x29.5x15 slick in it. We bought the car like that so we may have to redo the backhalf since it all looks basically stock now and backhalf and tub it for real meat inside the stock fenders. All we did was install 10 point cage, and now that the engine and trans are in, I'm going to make it a 12 point cage. I'd post pic's but I don't know how yet or even if I can. I like the cruise to the drive-in scenario, can't hardly wait, docile 600HP on tap, this rates with sex and if you tell my girlfriend, I'll swear your a liar!! I'll check on the miniram, is that the ACCEL system?? Haltech and TechIII must be two different systems, I'll see what I come up with, Thanks, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quicker240 Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Do a search on miniram here and you should get several hits.Grumpyvette has posted some very informative data with comparisons to several other systems and multiple links to technical information.The techIII I think is from electromotive.Its highly programable with provisions for almost any type of systems control you might need.Haltech is bit more common with the import/tuner crowd,also big into turbo control,highly reccomended by some, but I personally have no experience with it.1200hp is a lofty goal and will require a seriously lofty budget.I hear alky is very corrosive and brings a whole new set of issues to the table.The kind of power you are talking about really only seems to run in professional circles from what I have seen.I would love to be involved some stuff like that but quite honestly,its a bit out of my league.Not only is the engine SUPER expensive to build,The rest of a car to safely and reliably stand up to it is ultra expensive also.Suddenly we are talking about a 100,000 dollar car.Best of luck with your project and I would love to see it at a SEZS shootout.Post some pics in the photo area.Its easy and painless.You get that thing running and you'll be hanging with some fast company,tell John Force I said hello! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 I've been running alcohol for years, maintenance is the key, draining fuel lines, disassembling carbs, spraying penetrating oil into the fuel pump and draining the tank is all that is required. Alcohol is not corrosive it's the water it attracts since it is hydroponic. Definately not for the daily driver, however on a carbed system all I do is change carbs, from gas to alky or visa versa depending on what I'm doing. Cruising Sonic with a 700HP car attracts alot of attention from both the wanna be hotrods and Lt Fuzz. You pick up an easy 50HP and 50TQ with alky, usually more, and variations in weather conditions don't have much of an effect on tuning as is with gas. It's kind of like a shot of NOS, plus the engines runs soooooooooo much cooler which is why I run it for ultra high HP engines, avoid overheating problems. Turbo system should be well suited for alky, especially EFI, even with super large injectors should handle the conversion from gas to alky and back with the change of a calibration map easy enough. Budget isn't really an issue, engines run 8K in long block form with the best of everything like Carillo, JE, Callies, Dart block, roller cam, AFR Heads, etc. Figure turbo and FI another 8K. I'm not serious about racing with John Force, but I'd like to see some 9's and 8's. 9's on motor, 8's Forced induction. John's a nice guy though. The georgia SEZS is too far, should have the z running next month and planning on Phoenix in Feb 05 and of course Albuquerque all year since it's basically my home track. Guy here has a '71 240 with minor rust, hail damage for $400, runs, has SU carbs, 4 speed. If anyone is interested I'll take pic's. Thanks for the info, search, search, search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 77vegasz Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 I remember in the late 70s when gasohol was available, gas/alcohol mix was touted as an alternative to the gas shortage. As soon as the crunch was over, it was gone. Does anyone have any knowledge of gas/alcohol mix and any performance potential? Just curious. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jap tin Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Its not a 383 at .040 over but thats another story. Dr. Hunt, you don't need turbo's efi and alky to run 8's. One carb and gas will do it in a Z. Just playing around to get to 100 on the post deal. All you boy's have fun now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 77vegasz Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Jap-Tin, its a 384.6, but 383 just rolls of the toung better. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Jap tin, I've seen pictures of your sb2.2 and car, really f'n awesome, been thinking about doing that as an option but there's not any running around here yet except for the Unsers, what are the particulars on the SB2.2, 50mm cam, Roller cam brgs?, raised location?, Cranks?, Deck height? Heads? Valve train? It's a 4-7 swap on the firing order as well isn't it? Who made your headers or did you do them yourself? Oil pans? Timing covers? Intakes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jap tin Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Hey Dr Hunt, I don't run sb2.2 stuff, wish I did though. Just a set of 18X brodix heads here. There is a lot of used Nascar stuff around though. I just did a custom grind cam but didn't go for the 4 7 swap on my 414 sbc. Make my own headers, a straight 2" tube with a 3 1/2" collector. ...Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Well, I must of been mistaken, I though one of your pic's said sb2 on it. What kind of tq and hp you figuring it makes? I'd really like to have a 2 inch set of headers. I know that you can run sb2 heads on any sbc block but you have to run the cam, offset lifters and offset rockers to make it work. Seems it would be better to run the new sb2 block that has repositioned lifter bores. I watched a 4-7 swap engine on the dyno the other week. It was run with standard cam first, then the 4-7 swap. Torque and HP were up about 14 each, then engine seemed smoother throughout the rpm range especially in the higher r's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jap tin Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 I don't know how much HP or TQ its putting out. I have never had my junk on a dyno, just run it down at the track. I did a little clean up on the heads, cut a little off the deck and put in some 2.15 & 1.60 titanium valves. Cam is .736 .720 282 290 @ .050 108 lsa . Converter goes 6100, 2 step it at 5800 and shift at 7800 go through at 8100. It will run 8.50's at my home track and 8.40's at Sacramento. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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