olie05 Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 This morning I was opening my car, and I almost broke the key off in the lock, because of all the force I had to apply for it to open. How do I fix this? Do I take it apart? Is there a way for me to fix this without taking out the lock from the door? (maybe greasing up the key and just turning?) I can't keep this up, cus I know one day this key is going to break off in there and I'm going to be screwd!!! -Oliver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 240zJake Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 They make a spray lubricant that is full of graphite, works well, and some places make a tube filled with graphite dust. I used the spray and the dust in a tube on my locks, works awesome. Tube type from home depot Spray form Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GabeRoc Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 is there any water in the lock? i've had more than one car that water went into the lock and when the weather went below zero the lock almost refused to move. if it's a water problem allow the lock to get above freezing (garage or hair dryer) and spray WD-40 (Water Displacer #40) into the lock, should push the water out and lube it at the same time. if it's not a water problem i'd use the graphite powder, it seems to last alot longer in dry rubs than WD-40. --gabe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Yeah, that's it, squirt graphite (an abrasive) into a lock cylinder (there goes the tolerances). Trust me, if you put graphite in a lock, you'll hate yourself if you ever have to take it apart. That crap is NASTY, especially when it gets mixed into a paste with the white lithium grease or other stiff lubricant that the factory puts in them. Take a trip to NAPA or other auto parts store. Get some Sea Foam Deep Creep. Click for Pic. Not the same stuff you put in your crankcase or gas tank, but made by the same people. Use the little red rube to spray the lock through the key hole (just barely put the tube in the keyway so you don't pass the front tumblers completely). A 1 second spray will be sufficient and let it alone for a minute or two, then run your key in and out of the lock a few times before trying to turn it. Wipe the gunk off of the key blade after doing this and you'll be amazed at what you find. Spray the locks about once a year to rinse away the buildup of pocket lint and other debris that gets stuck in there. Brake parts cleaner works well to spray away the debris and gunk as well, but make sure you re-lubricate the lock with Deep Creep or other "penetrating" lubricant as the brake parts cleaner will rinse away all of the lubricant too. WD40 will work, for a while, only until it either dries up or gums up, but your problem will return using that stuff. There are other lubricants you can use to spray in locks, but over the years, I've found that Deep Creep works best and lasts longest. I'm an automotive locksmith by trade. You don't have to listen if you don't want to, but you did ask for advice. Another problem may be that your key is so worn that you need to have it re-cut to factory spec by code. If you know your key code, I can help you, if not, it's on the passenger door lock (requires removal from the door). Most times, the key is worn LONG before the lock wears out. Since your car is a 77, and Nissan didn't stop doing this till 1982 or so, look in the glovebox for a white paper sticker with your key code on it. If you have that, let me know, I'm capable of producing new keys for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 240zJake Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 The only thing I will argue about is that graphite is an abrasive. It is not. Diamond is the ultimate abrasive, Graphite is a very good lubricant. 1 : a soft black lustrous form of carbon that conducts electricity and is used in lead pencils and electrolytic anodes, as a lubricant[/b'], and as a moderator in nuclear reactors Why does it lubricate? Graphite[/b'] has a layered structure that consists of rings of six carbon atoms arranged in widely spaced horizontal sheets. the sheets slide past each other with great ease, very slippery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Jake, you make a good point, it IS in fact a good lubricant, "by itself", however, when mixed with the factory installed lubricants, the combination of the two, become a gel about the consistancy of peanut butter. This in turn slows and or impedes the movement of the wafer tumblers used in the locks, thus impeding their reaction to key insertion and extraction. Since the tolerances in the locks are critical to their proper operation, and this overabundance of "peanut butter" gets hardened with time, the proper clearances are therefore lessened, causing the locks to malfunction, i.e. sticking tumblers, worn springs, excessive wear to the inner cylinder walls caused by forcing the locks to be turned with the tumblers not fully retracted. So to stand corrected, I will, but I will still remain constant in saying that it's not a good idea to put graphite in locks. (Besides, it's nasty as heck to work on locks and get that crap all over the place after someone has put graphite in them.) It should also be noted that worn keys will have the same effect on the lock cylinders. If the key does not pull down or push up on the tumblers the proper amount, either by being worn too much or the tumblers being full of foreign matter, the lock cylinder itself will be worn by the brass edges of the tumblers themselves, causing grooves around the cylinder on it's inner walls. This in itself is one of the major reasons that so many locks can be opened (effectively picked) with the wrong key. Thanks for the carlification. Warren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2126 Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 The interesting thing about lock sets is that most people have no clue about them. Spraying of any wet type lube (lube that stays wet) into a lock set is a no no! Sure, the lock will work better for the short term...but as previously mentioned it will collect dust and debris and ultimately turn into a grinding compond. So, if you have a lock set that has never seen a wet lubricant, the best advise is to use a dry graphite. Don't spray it into the lock, apply it to the key blade and then work the key in and out of the lock numerous times. If this is done on a regular basis (once every 6 months) you are likely to experience trouble free operation. Oh, by the way, don't forget to wipe off the excess graphite from the key blade as it's not too friendly to your closes. The above described method of lock set lubrication was MEDECO's (high end lock sets) prefered method of lock set lubrication. Of course they have revised this method since then. It must also be noted that the revision came about in a time frame when their sales were falling off drasticly. Now they recommend using a cutting oil as lubricant.....go figure!!? Maybe they think this will promote early failure of their lock sets, so the customer will have to purchase new lock sets more often. Anyway, use dry graphite.....it's the best stuff to use and is the prefered method of lock set lubrication by a vast majority of professional lock smiths (at least ones with years of experience). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallnet Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Warren is correct on this one man. When that stuff is mixed with a paste grease that is in the locks already. The particles are not aligned to slide along each other as designed.. Think about it.... I have 11 years of working on Jaguar cars (Certified) and have seen this often in locks as well as other parts of the car.. Warren has been working as a locksmith (His own business) since I was a pup... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 Just for reference, not to continue an argument about locks here, but... I DO own an automotive locksmith company, I have almost 10 years of daily experience in the automotive lock and key field. I service several automotive dealerships and their customers and see this stuff EVERY day. Care and Service of Master Padlocks Master probably makes more locks than just about anyone... Medeco Cylinder Lubrication In their own words... Suzuki - Oil, Chemicals and Lubricants They even have their own NON-Graphite "Spray Liquid" product. These are just a couple of references and recommendations by the manufacturers of locks. I'm sure there are others that might recommend lubrication using graphite, but I know of these MAJOR manufacturers who don't, including MEDECO. While this seems to be a very controversial subject as to which product to use as a lubricant, it really all comes down to personal preference. It should be noted that each person servicing locks has their own technique and favorite method of cleaning as well as lubrication. I can only speak from my experiences and make recommendations based on what I KNOW works for me. As the information provided above was not intended to slander or bash any one person in particular, it seems that this has turned into a discussion of right and wrong ways to accomplish a simple task, which can be done in many ways. The intent of my comments were only to make a safe and easy recommendation to possibly solve a problem for a fellow member of the community here. Either way you choose to clean and lubricate your locks will work, but having had to completely disassemble and thoroughly clean out as many locks as I have in the last 10 years, trust me, the job is ALOT cleaner and neater if the graphite isn't introduced into the lock in the first place. Many of the locks that I've had to service were so full of graphite and other debris that the springs which return the wafer tumblers back to their resting positions were completely jammed, actually keeping the tumblers from moving. Getting back to the original problem, of the lock being hard to turn, may not even be the lock or the key's fault. The lock rods, door latch mechanism and/or other friction points of the system may be at fault. There may be corrosion caused by dissimilar metals and moisture as well as simple rust formed around the tailpiece retaining clip, causing excess friction. Without being able to physically see the entire locking system of the car, it's hard to diagnose the exact cause of the problem, however, through experience, I've gained enough knowledge to realize what causes these things to happen. Therefore, the recommendation to clean and lubricate the locks is the easiest and fastest option to at least rule out the lock itself being the cause of the problem. It may, or may not, resolve the situation of the key being hard to turn in the lock, but it's a good starting point. Further investigation might be required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olie05 Posted January 25, 2005 Author Share Posted January 25, 2005 Getting back to the original problem, of the lock being hard to turn, may not even be the lock or the key's fault. The lock rods, door latch mechanism and/or other friction points of the system may be at fault. There may be corrosion caused by dissimilar metals and moisture as well as simple rust formed around the tailpiece retaining clip, causing excess friction. Without being able to physically see the entire locking system of the car, it's hard to diagnose the exact cause of the problem, however, through experience, I've gained enough knowledge to realize what causes these things to happen. Therefore, the recommendation to clean and lubricate the locks is the easiest and fastest option to at least rule out the lock itself being the cause of the problem. It may, or may not, resolve the situation of the key being hard to turn in the lock, but it's a good starting point. Further investigation might be required. Alright, so I sprayed WD-40 into the lock tumbler, and that didn't do anything, so continued to spray by the striker, and it actualy freed up the lock a little. What do I have to do, now that I know the problem isn't in the lock tumbler, to free it all up? BTW I don't think my key will break off anymore, but I still have to use more force than on most cars to unlock it. -Oliver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallnet Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 Pull the latch assembly off the car and soak it in the penetrant overnight. Then clean it well and work it over and over again on the bench. Lube it on all the moving parts with white lithium grease then reinstall. Should work great.. Good luck.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 I'm pretty sure you would already know this, but the quick fix for when the lock feels like it doesn't want to turn is to rock the key back in the opposite direction all the way... then try again. For some reason that always works easily for me. However, its a good idea to re-lube as per Warren the Keyguy's instructions. He sounds like he knows what the hell he's talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olie05 Posted January 25, 2005 Author Share Posted January 25, 2005 I'm pretty sure you would already know this, but the quick fix for when the lock feels like it doesn't want to turn is to rock the key back in the opposite direction all the way... then try again. Yeah thats what I was doing before, but it just kept getting worse. This WD-40 has held up for 2 days, so i'll just keep sprayin it until i have the time to take off the latch and really work on it. -Oliver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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