danc Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 Guys: I had what was in intermittant (now plain won't start) problem with my BSC/ZX that started when I put the engine back in last year. From the time of the conversion 3+ years agin, I have had to sometimes turn the ignition more than once to get the starter to engage. I hear what sounds like a relay click and the dash lights dim. (Curiously the interior lights don't). I have 12 volts to the starter, alternator and on the ignition side of the Holley low oil pressure shut off switch. I swapped the switch out with an extra I had and it made no change. I have a good ground going from the battery to the chassis, but have never had one from the engine to the frame. I don't have a neutral safety starting switch hooked up yet. An electrical whizz I'm not so any assistance would be greatly appreciated.. Thankx Guys. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbk240z Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 Try jumping it at the starter, if it works then it's probably a faulty key ignition switch, (Datsuns seem to have a bad rap for this). If it doesn't turn over then it could be a bad starter solenoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 305240 Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 A 3 way ground is very important is almost any car. I've noticed it is more-so in the ZX's. My 81 that I got, some PO had actually put a push button switch where the cig lighter goes to start the car. I removed that and hooked up a battery to body ground and body to engine ground along with the battery to engine ground. Problem solved. With this setup, you will notice your lights being brighter and less prone to burning out bulbs and yes, alts. If the problem persists, change or clean the contacts on the ign switch its self. If it still does it, re-wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 I had the same problem with my ZX conversion. It ended up being that I needed more grounds from the engine to the body. Sometimes it would start no problem but sometimes it would seem like the battery was dead? Finally one day while trying to get it started I noticed that my throttle cable(steel braided, Lokar unit) was very warm after repeated trys at starting it. Then it hit me like a freight train...........I dont have the engine grounded enough and its going throught the throttle cable as a ground! Besides more grounds never hurt! Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danc Posted February 8, 2005 Author Share Posted February 8, 2005 Guys: Thanx for the help. Haven't tried the "ground" fix yet, but I have eleminated most of the other possibilities except a starter relay. I'll give it a shot this weekend and hopefully it solves what was a pretty nagging problem. Nothing like driving a vehicle that may or may not start.Thanks again. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danc Posted February 13, 2005 Author Share Posted February 13, 2005 Guys: Still no fix. I have had the starter bench tested, put grounds in from the engine to the chassis and starter also to the chassis. already had one from the negative side of the battery to the chassis and engine. I've checked the power again and have power to the large terminal of the starter, alternator, ignition side of the Holley Low oil pressure shut off switch and ignition plug to the distributor. I do not have 12 volts to the "S" terminal on the starter, but am not sure if I would only have that when the key is turned to start. Is there a starter-relay in the system, or thermal fuse anywhere?? It has run in the configuration, so I am stumped... Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 You should only have power to the "S" terminal while cranking. Now do you have power coming out the low pressure oil switch while cranking? Maybe sometimes the switch is stuck and not closing the contacts and causing a no start condition? Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Oh and you could eliminate the starter being the problem by using a remote starter set up. I have one but have never used it. Its basically just a button with 2 wires coming out of it. Just hook one end up to the "S" terminal and one to the "B" terminal on the starter solenoid and push the button and it should crank over and start. If this works then you know you have an issue somewhere else, if it doesnt then you know either the starter motor is bad or the starter solenoid is bad. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danc Posted February 20, 2005 Author Share Posted February 20, 2005 O.K. Guys it still won't start. Tried hooking up the Holley Low Oil pressure safety switch different ways and it starts with the key in the on position if I change the wires to an incorrect position. There are 3 wires: One normally Open that goes to the ignition; one normally closed that goes to the starter, and one that goes to the fuel pump. Tried hooking up the old Holley safety switch I had laying aruond from last year on this same problem and nothing other than a realy type click on the passenger side in the correct hook-up. Going to talk to the Holley Tech support folks Monday to see how to by pass the switch (assume it is a jumper from the normally open to normally closed to get it started), to eliminate that, but I've tried everything I know to do. (Again as posted earlier A wiring wizard I'm not). The car was a manual trans and I don't have the factory wiring diagram, but is there a starter relay or ignition relay that could be fried. Tried a "working" starter and batt from another vehicl and no-go...Also had a low draining short since the conversion 3 years ago that drained the battery in 3 or 4 days if that is of any help. Now I'm not getting that draw when I hook up the ground terminal.. I'm ready to get out the check book and call wiring Bob and try to get this thing fixed. Any thoughts from anyone out there???? Thanx Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Z Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I had the same problem in my Z. I even have a battery disconnect switch installed. Went all the way through it and finally found that my starter was for a 305. To turn over my 327 it had to work too hard and drew a lot of amps. Lights dimmed, slow to turn over, drained the battery eventually until it would just give a click and not start. I put in a gear reduction hitachi starter and it's never happened since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COZY Z COLE Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Although I didn't have a starter for a 305 in mine, I had the same problems as Heavy Z did, so I put in a Chevy 3.0 HP competition mini starter. That baby spins the HELL out of the motor and no problems since. LARRY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Ok lets get somethings straight before you go out and spend money you dont need to....... 1.) it will not even crank over now 2.) you have power coming from the battery to the LARGE terminal on the starter 3.) You have a known good battery(just because it reads 12.6v doesnt mean its ok, it has to pass a load test)(when you load test a battery it should not drop below 9.6V, however you cant test this with out a battery load tester) 4.) Do you have power to the "S" terminal on the starter while cranking? I am going to be out in the garage tomorrow(sunday) working on my car. I will get out the Haynes manual and have a look at the wiring for the starting system. I dont know how much rewiring you've done but I will let you know if there are some relays, fuses, or fusible links that you should be checking. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Check to make sure your BROWN fusable link is not burnt up. There is an IGNITION relay located on the passenger side next to the glove box on the bottom of the A-Pillar. There are 4 relays there. It is the one located closest to the firewall and above another one. First things first though, Do you have power to the "S" terminal while cranking? Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danc Posted February 24, 2005 Author Share Posted February 24, 2005 Guys/80LT1: Been out of town for work, but had a couple of minutes last night. In case I wasn't clear in the background, the car has run in this configuration, and the starting problem (failing to start intermittantly) just got worse to "won't start at all". Here is what it's not: The starter and battery both check out O.K. under "load" testing. The Holley fuel pump safety switch checks out O.K. with a test recommended by the Holley Techs. When I turn the key to start, I get nothing but what sounds like a relay click on the passenger footwell side of the car. I'd assume since I'm getting that action that the ignition switch is O.K. As I mentioned earlier, the dash lights dim but the interior lights and low oil pressure light do not. I do have 12 volts from the battery to the large terminal on the solonoid, but none on the "S." side. I'll have to move the car outside this weekend to get into the passenger side to check out the fuseable link. I'll let you know what I get back from that test. The list of what is could be has to be getting pretty short, but I really do need to invest in a ZX shop manual. Thanks again. I have another project car (actually inherited an all steel 1940 Ford pro-street pick-up) that is about 90% done that I need to spend some quality time on. I'd hoped to enjoy the "Z" this year and not do too much other than go fast and put gas in.. I have a 3.54 and CV joints on my to-do list for next winter along with power steering and a few other minor projects.. At any rate, I sure do appreciate you guys throwing ideas out and hanging in with me on this. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danc Posted February 27, 2005 Author Share Posted February 27, 2005 The brown fuseable link is O.K. Not sure of the differences between an 80 and an 83, but the fuseable links I found were on the passenger side fenderwell next to the battery. I took the panel off below the glove box and didn't see any fuseable links down there. I was pressed for time yesterday and will do a more through job of trying to find the relay. I also have 4 relays on the passenger side fenderwell in closer to the front. Have done little rewiring on the car and the yellow wire going to solonoid is unchanged from factory. Going to try and find a shop manual to order today..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 You should be able to get a Haynes manual like I have from Auto Zone. Thats where I got mine. The only bad part is the wiring diagrams only go up to 82' for some reason? Even though the book is for 79-83? I would imagine the 82 is close enough for the starting system. I can't imagine that they changed that much from 82-83. Here is the starting sytem testing procedures from my Haynes manual...... Starting System Test for a 280ZX page 1 Starting System Test for a 280ZX page 2 I hope that will atleast get you pointed in the right direction. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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