buZy Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Has anyone here ever done an older 351C swap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerrari GTO Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I hope so. Chose a SBC because there was not any info for a 351C swap. I used to own a 71' Mach 1 w/a 351C that absolutely screamed...and that was in a HEAVY body. I can only imagine what a Cleveland engine would do in a Z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preith Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I don't deal with any V8's so please excuse my ignorance, but a few years ago I had a '74 LTD that for some reason I took a liking to. I had plans for a little hotroding, but ended up selling it. Anyways, it had the 400, which is a derivative of the 351C. From the reading I've done, it's a great motor, but considerably heavier than the 302, and I think there was a catch with cylinder heads; aftermarket aluminum ones weren't available, even from Ford Motorsport. I seem to remember you could adapt the cleveland heads to the 302, but not the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerrari GTO Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 The derivative(s) of the 351C did not have quite the same head design...and thats where the power came from (canted valves, large oval intake ports). It has been noted many time that the 351C put out the most HP per cubic inch than any other normally asperated V8. Putting aluminum 302/351W heads on a 351C would just make an engine like a 351W. The reason people adapted 351C heads to a 302 was to clone a BOSS 302 engine which was equiped w/351C heads. I think there used to be 351C aluminum heads put out by Ford for the NASCAR guys. Good luck finding any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preith Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Thanks, that clears it up. However, I'm almost positive the 400 had canted valves, but like you say the ports were much smaller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerrari GTO Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Yep, the 400's had canted valves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BOOMER-Z Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I might catch heat for saying this because these engines have their die-hard fans, but this one is best left to the restorers. Produced for only 5 years (1970-1974), time passed the 351-C by long, long ago. It was by far the best Ford engine of the 1970's, and the only Ford engine to use in serious competition (NHRA Pro-Stock & NASCAR) during that era. Also, I believe that the 1971 Boss 351 Mustang, when properly geared, was fastest 1/4 mile Mustang built, even faster than the mighty 428-CJ cars. But it also had it's shortcomings. It is extremely heavy for a small block and the heads, both the 2V and 4v versions, suffered from a poor and restrictive exhaust port. The exhaust ports had a sharp dog-leg shape made necessary by the need for exhaust manifold clearance for the shock towers used in the old Mustangs and Torinos these engines came in. In fact, it was common practice for Pro-Stockers to actually section the heads on the exhaust side just below the valve cover rail and weld and bolt on "high-port plates" to revise the exhaust port geometry. The intake side flowed great, but the sewer pipe sized 4v versions were effective at high-RPM only, and made for sluggish street performance on the bottom end. Given the wealth of modern cylinder heads (most of which easily outflow the 351-C heads) and relatively inexpensive speed equipment available for the 302 and 351-W, there is simply no case for building one of these engines except for nostalgia or restoration purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerrari GTO Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 BOOMER-Z don't forget the Detomaso Pantera; that was a sweet application!... but you know what-your right. The 351C was great in it's day but there are much better Ford engine options now. This thread just kind of took me back a few years and reminded me of crusing in the Mach 1 with Led Zepplin playing and funny smelling smoke flowing out of the windows...Far out man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazycyril Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 I have several of these engines about in various vehicles. got an old F250 twuck with a 2v heads and an aftermarket 4 barrel intake and dbl pumper holly. Does ohkay for a truck to haul stuff to the dump. Got a 69 Cougar with a stock 351c and lil two barrel carb. It does well enough to move the cougar about squealling one tire on the non lsd rear and the slightest throttle touch. Got a 71 Ranchero with a probuilt 351c 4v backed up with a richmond 4+1 tranny. Serious money was spent on this at engine shop building it up. heads converted to roller rockers and alot of valve/port work done. High compression quench heads. custom grind cam that opens the valves quickly with alot of overlap. Big ports. not much low end but one you get the revs up to 4k it really kicks. Aerochamber mufflers.. quite loud at 7k rpm I have a spare 351c 4v that I built up for use in the cougar that I never got around to swapping in. Keeping it as a spare. I used a duel plane/runner intake with spreadbore to have smaller primary. hopefully it flow a lil better at low rpm. Got a couple chevy 350 engines for the z. Bit easier to work with parts and install knowledge wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskrat Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 Its too bad we sold that '73 convertable that we rebuilt, it had a 351c with 4v heads, Weiand X-celerator intake, headers, and a complete MSD ignition system. Actually.... I'd steal the 9" and C6 trans too, 351c drag Z anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preith Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 I had an excellent book by Tom Monroe, "HT Rebuild Ford 351C/351M/400/429/460" who also authored "HT rebuild your Datsun L-series", spoke of an aussie head with ports somewhere in between the 2V and 4V heads. Those sound like they would be cool to have, but I wonder how difficult to obtain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman47 Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 Ok lets clear some things up the 351c was the best smallblock everbuilt in its time. If Performance heads like trick flow edelbrock dart word product etc wouldnt have came around it still would be the best. That AUSSIE head you speak of, Flow 330 CFM out of the box Thats 50 cfm`s more than afr`s biggest cnc`d head!!!! What the 351c engine is, is a 351w bottom end with big block heads. 2.19" intake and 1.7n" exhaust where the windsor had 1.78" intake and 1.54 exhaust. Hi-PO heads now a days are only 2.02/1.60. The cleavland was such a potent motor That when ford put it in a nascar it was outlawed!!! Bastard chevy guys cant just take there beating like men. Anyways the 351c was almost unconcievable back then. People do swaps now days. Ls1 guys put ls2 heads on for more hp, people scower the earth trying to find gt-40p heads out of 97-2000 explorers because they bring more compression and they have bigger valves. But the 351c was the first to do it. A small block body with a big *** set of hi compression heads and you have a bad *** engine. But now the head technology is so good they dont have much of advantage anymore...until all the companys star making there heads. If I were you guys I`d all buy or go to the junkyard and aquire a 351c block they run about 200$ now but my prediction they will be 800 in 3 years. As soon as edelbroks C head hits the market which it is supposed to in about 6 months every company will follow and when that happens these monster heads will put out 600 hp out of the box at the midrange head cost [World product iron heads] So imagine what AFR`s will do probably 800 hp out of the box. Think the big ported alum 460 heads push it to 600 hp but it cant rev due to such a huge rotating mass. Basically Big Block torque with Small Block reving and what is hp... torque multiplied by rpm. Imagine revving a 428cj to 7000 reliably. When Nascar banned the 351c The great HEMI was being used and it kick its *** badly, how badass does an engine have to be to banned due to unfairness against a HEMI... the awnser very bad ***. So all of you go out and get a 351c block its a great investment and also, we are making a kit for the C to fit in the Z. Right after we fit the windsor and 289/302 we are fitting the C. Chad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BOOMER-Z Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 The Aussie heads combined the 2v sized ports and valves with closed combustion chambers like the early 4v heads. These are by far the best compromise for a hot street head, but they are NOT cheap. The last time I checked (back when I had my Cleveland several years ago now), they were in the neighborhood of $1,300./pair, used and reconditioned with stock components. To get the most out of them, you'd still need porting work and high performance valves, springs, etc. Compare that with what you can get in aftermarket aluminum heads for the Windsors and you will find that it's not a particularly cost-effective way to make power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerrari GTO Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 OK, but has anyone here put a 351C in a Z? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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