dr_hunt Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 Ok, well, I decided to do it. The 357 hasn't even broken in yet in the z. Out it comes, in goes the 406 out of the Monte SS. See what the z runs with that engine. Bought another sbc dart block yesterday, having it decked and honed with the special cam bearings installed. Disassembling the 357, parking the production 4 bolt block in the shop for future use, changing pistons to low compression JE's, rebalance, re-install in the dart block with turbo roller grind cam. Going to go with the accel superam intake on alky and go turbo. I like twin turbos cause it looks cool if for no other reason. Add your advice here.... Don't know squat about turbo's, been looking, done the math, seems as though I should be looking for 35lb/min each for twins, and 70 lb/min for a single, but that depends on boost level. Insert your advice here........ Alky should let me see 30psi boost easy. Plan on installing the engine with just the EFI, run it on the street in the monte until I get the rings seated, then add turbo(s) and then switch motors and get it in the z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 If you want to get a short but good education in EFI and Turbos, I would recommend the following books because they are extremely relevant: Maximum Boost by Corky Bell and Fuel Injection by Jeff Hartman Both books are great and fairly easy to read & understand. They'll give you a basic rundown on what size of turbo is right and what to do, etc. Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COZY Z COLE Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 Now a couple of video's by the Turbo Meister wouldn't have anything to due with this, does it???? I love boost on a V-8. LARRY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Meister Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 I like twin turbos cause it looks cool if for no other reason. should be looking for 35lb/min each for twins' date=' and 70 lb/min for a single, but that depends on boost level. Alky should let me see 30psi boost easy. Plan on installing the engine with just the EFI, run it on the street in the monte until I get the rings seated, then add turbo(s) and then switch motors and get it in the z.[/quote'] Yesss.. another turbo install. Twins do look good, but installation, intercooler and accessories fit better with a single. The exhaust will be the toughest part for installation in a Z unless you plan to cut sheetmetal. As you know there is more room in a Monte Carlo engine compartment than in a Z's. You will be boosting more lbs of air than what you listed, at 30 psi, but you can get more specific info from your turbo dealer. From what I've seen on this site of your accomplishments and automotive experience, you should be able to do the turbo thing with no problems. Hanns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Hey Doc....looks like we have similar plans. I am also planning a 357ci (3.5" stroke). I am going to use Mega Squirt and these: Garrett TO4s 60-1 Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Meister Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Tim, Ok, you posted the turbo pics. So now it's official and for the world to know. So how much boost will they generate to make 1k hp? Are you still planning the 9" rear install or something else? Maybe we can soon have a "Turbo V8" section for everyone who is working toward that goal!! Or maybe a "Forced InductionV8" section so we can include COZY COLE. Hanns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 I have backed off of my goal of 1k HP. I figured it will be basically unuseable and very expensive to buid the drivetrain to support it. 700hp at the wheels is all I'm after..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spotfitz Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 I hear a "FOR NOW" coming from Tim shortly.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Blazer406 Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Ok' date=' well, I decided to do it........ Going to go with the accel superam intake on alky and go turbo. I like twin turbos cause it looks cool if for no other reason. Add your advice here.... [/quote'] I'm kinda at this stage as well. I am really poor-boy'ing it at this point though..... I have chosen to use 2 factory '02 Powerstroke turbos. They flow enough air for about 550 hp a piece. This seems like a resonable choice since I am planning on a 383 ci Chevy with EFI and have a goal af around 700 hp at the wheels (I hope I can get there with 15# of boost.... but am not sure)....... but on pump gas.......... Am I crazy or what? ...... I think the PS turbos will probably be pretty laggy getting them to spool up, so I am looking at a 50 hp plate NO2 kit to act as an intercooler in a bottle and spool em up quicker. At this point I am going to run a Edelbrock Victor Jr converted EFI intake with an elbow and a 75 or so mm TB with 84# injectors. Probably a little too much injector, but... hey.... I can grow into them and have a spare set from my brother-in-law. Electronics have not been decided on yet. I am looking at a new MegaSquirt with the MS II mod or a used Accel Gen6 ..... or maybe something a little more expensive if the money is available when I get around to buy it. Transmission .... I am leaning toward a slightly modified Powerglide.....with a good converter/bellhousing. Before I can get full attention on the Z ('73 240Z) I must sell my '89 V-8 S10 Blazer first.... and of course.... there is stuff to be done to it before I can sell it...... Good luck with your setup and keep us posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240ZR Posted March 15, 2005 Share Posted March 15, 2005 Personaly I liked prochagers I was going to Supercharge using theri system its alot easyer IMO then turbos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted March 15, 2005 Share Posted March 15, 2005 Can you twin turbo a 10:1 compression EFI V8 on pump gas with out blowing it? What kind of turbos would you need? Could you use two small JY turbos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted March 15, 2005 Author Share Posted March 15, 2005 I think you can turbo 10:1 motor on pump gas, but it would be boost limited. 10:1 on alcohol is just right, even 11:1 on supercharged engines works very very well. Nope, turbo meister didn't have any influence, but it didn't hurt any. I was always planning on doing a twin turbo cause I wanted a true street car and turbo engines allow for mild street manners and unholy hell when the pedal is wooded out. Kind of like women I guess. I too thought of the procharged route, but longetivity with those units is still a question in my mind. I have several friends that have them and they are always trashing the serpentine drive belts at a cost of $100 a piece. lbm of air is alot more at 30psi, I think that figure was for 15 psi if I remember correctly. I had looked at the T4 60-1 as well, gets pretty close for 15 psi boost. I need to know what the turbo is doing throughout the rpm range not just at specific points, so I was looking at buying a turbo calculator program. The monte has alot of room, but the z does not, you are correct. However I plan to build it for the z, just install it in the monte for starters. The monte is a much more stable platform for that kind of HP. It has the 9 inch, th400, 4 wheel disc's, and yes it weighs 3800 with my lard butt in the seat. Both run the same ignition and fuel systems so it'd be an easy change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WTFZ Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 I've been reading here for quite awhile, and I think this is my first post. Anyway, I do have a Turbonetics T4 60-1 that I need to get rid of. Was going to use it on my Honda, but got side-tracked with work, so I bought a Z instead. If anyone is interested PM/email me. Also, just so that I don't completely hi-jack the thread, what kind of power are you looking to make? Could be the difference between twin T4s or twin T67s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moridin Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 I have backed off of my goal of 1k HP. I figured it will be basically unuseable and very expensive to buid the drivetrain to support it. 700hp at the wheels is all I'm after..... You wouldn't need to worry about drivetrain support, because you would never hook up to break anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moridin Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 I think you can turbo 10:1 motor on pump gas' date=' but it would be boost limited. 10:1 on alcohol is just right, even 11:1 on supercharged engines works very very well. Nope, turbo meister didn't have any influence, but it didn't hurt any. I was always planning on doing a twin turbo cause I wanted a true street car and turbo engines allow for mild street manners and unholy hell when the pedal is wooded out. Kind of like women I guess. I too thought of the procharged route, but longetivity with those units is still a question in my mind. I have several friends that have them and they are always trashing the serpentine drive belts at a cost of $100 a piece. lbm of air is alot more at 30psi, I think that figure was for 15 psi if I remember correctly. I had looked at the T4 60-1 as well, gets pretty close for 15 psi boost. I need to know what the turbo is doing throughout the rpm range not just at specific points, so I was looking at buying a turbo calculator program. The monte has alot of room, but the z does not, you are correct. However I plan to build it for the z, just install it in the monte for starters. The monte is a much more stable platform for that kind of HP. It has the 9 inch, th400, 4 wheel disc's, and yes it weighs 3800 with my lard butt in the seat. Both run the same ignition and fuel systems so it'd be an easy change.[/quote'] You'd be better off going with a decent sized single. Less total turbo weight to push with the same amount of exhaust air. Plumbing is a little more complicated, but it may be worth the effort in response time and power. I'd bet that you are going to need to O-ring the block and do all sorts of fun stuff to keep it together. Depends on how much boost you're going to run and how much power you are looking to put down. If I remember correctly from one of our long time members GrumpyVette (I have no idea where he went) always stated that it was the dynamic compression that determined detonation resistance and boost levels allowable. What are you planning to do about a fuel pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted March 16, 2005 Author Share Posted March 16, 2005 Not really sure about HP levels. Motor should make in excess of 400HP on motor alone with the AFR 220's, so, 600-800 should be easily attainable with good street manners and of course there is always crazy sick HP. Block has been o-ringed already, using copper head gaskets. I can probably get the Monte to work with 800+HP and the z with 600, at least that's my thought anyway. Single turbo would be easier I agree. Wanting advice from those that have done and been there already. Fuel pump, belt driven Aeromotive for EFI, yes it is now a reality. I think technology is finally catching up with the hotrod crowd, making it easier to make mondo HP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moridin Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Not really sure about HP levels. Motor should make in excess of 400HP on motor alone with the AFR 220's' date=' so, 600-800 should be easily attainable with good street manners and of course there is always crazy sick HP. Block has been o-ringed already, using copper head gaskets. I can probably get the Monte to work with 800+HP and the z with 600, at least that's my thought anyway. Single turbo would be easier I agree. Wanting advice from those that have done and been there already. Fuel pump, belt driven Aeromotive for EFI, yes it is now a reality. I think technology is finally catching up with the hotrod crowd, making it easier to make mondo HP.[/quote'] I don't have much experience with belt driven pumps, but why not an Aeromotive electrical? Too much amperage for your alternator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted March 17, 2005 Author Share Posted March 17, 2005 Nope, not worried about current drain, this is how aeromotive explained it to me. The electric pumps operate at one speed, on, and that's it. So when you are cruising they can overheat the pump motor. They make fuel pump controllers, but aeromotive says that with the high fuel pressure it has to remain on all the time. They say that the belt driven pump provides a more consistent fuel volume that is directly tied to engine rpm and that it will deliver more constant fuel pressure/volume than the electric and be more reliable in the long haul for this application. They could be wrong, I could be wrong for believing them, but there's only one way to find out and then I can always let the rest of the world know from experience. I guess sometimes you just gotta try something new even if it involves a new mouse trap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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