smog test ... ecm ???

[waynekarnes]

dental insurance won't cover fixing same tooth again, so, selling 88 fiero GT ..

 

man named Tony agreed to buy it , 2 grand if i smog it ...

 

i bought it in sept of last year, passed smog, back then, no problem.

 

since then, think i put maybe 160 miles on it ... was supposed to be my son's car, so keeping the mileage down ( 108,000 ). real fun car to drive ( think go cart ). plenty of power, 4 wheel discs, 225/50/15. 5 speed.

 

anyway, Tony test drives it about 20 miles ... decides he wants it ... interior is like brand new, body straight, paint scratched, but from 10 feet ... beautiful. bright red.

 

after test ride, we let it idle in the driveway for about 20 minutes, to be sure no coolant leaks ... no big deal, i used to let it idle for 20 minutes and then take it for a 10 mile ride. did this about once every 2 months or so.

 

anyway, take it to get it smogged ... smog guy has no idea what kind of car this is ... pulls the front hood, can't find the engine ... looks real confused ...

 

 

car is sitting on dyno rollers, idling for about 1/2 hour while he tries to figure out what he's doing ... sniffer up one of the pipes ...

 

smog guy starts dicking around under the dash, we guess he's looking for the test point, where one reads the trouble codes ...

 

he grabs something from his tool box, plugs in what ever it was ...

 

engine sputters, starts missing a bit ... settles down, but now, running super rich, as in limp mode ... black out the exhausts ... burbbeling ...

 

funny it was running fine, until he crawled under the dash with what ever he had in his hand ... he revs engine until speedo reads 15 mph, holds it for so many minutes, and again at 25 mph. engine is not happy, still seems to be in limp mode ...

 

he takes his timing light, tries to figure out where to look on the engine ( transverse mounted 2.8 V6 ). he removes the gas cap, pressure tests it ...

 

hits some buttons on his test station.

 

printer spits out some paper.

 

he walks towards me, hands me the paper, i figure, congratulations are in order, especially, since he tested the gas cap ...

 

instead, he points out ... failed here CO ... GROSS POLLUTER !!! printed right out on the papers ... no retest, must go to test only station ...

 

we both tried to question him as to what happened ... why it was running so well until he dicked under the dash ??? his english isn't so good, and i don't speak vietnamese .. nor did Tony ...

 

the tester suggested a few things we might do to fix it ...

 

but, i think the guy blew up the ECM ...

 

bunch of crap ... what ever he did, caused ecm to go into limp mode and there is apparently nothing i can do about it ...

 

Tony and i figure ... gonna cost around 500 to 800 to fix it ... oh ... gross polluters ...no limit as to how much money you get to spend to make it pass smog test ... and no free retests ... cost me 70 bucks for this test ... will be 85 bucks at the test only station, NO free RETESTS. so, i can bust my nuts trying to get it to pass, replace things at random and not know if i fixed it, until i pay another 85 bucks at the test only station ... $85 for each test, until i get it to pass ...

 

we both agree, was running fine no smoke out the pipes, perfect idle, until smog tech connected up under the dash ... best we could make out, the smog tech was telling us, it's an old car, who knows what happened ...

 

i'm done ... pissed ... need money to pay the dentist ..

 

Tony has tentatively agreed to buy the fiero for 1200 ... the difference between the 2 grand and what we think it'll cost him to pass smog ... Tony works for the city, lives on frisco. he asked a few people he knows, also a couple smog techs, basically ... no way to prove anything ... amateur's word against trained tech.

 

1200 is the dentist estimate, BEFORE he starts ( trying to save dead tooth with a crown on it so i don't have a hole there, or need a bridge ).

 

arrrggghhhh ... just venting ... this is really screwed up !!!!

[Pop N Wood]

I would do a general tune up before heading straight for the ECU. New plugs, wires, air filter, PCV (if it has one). Just the basics. Then I would check out the O2 sensor. Chances are idling an engine with that many miles may have fouled them. You can clean them up, but if they aren't too expensive just get new ones.

 

Finally, search though some of Tim240's old posts about smog tests and add some (I think) tolulene to the gas. Will help lower emissions and clean up the engine. Then take it out on a high speed run. See what all that does before you give up on it.

[LS1 Z]

I've been a smog tech here in Cali for 20 years. Sounds like the smog "tec" didn't know what he was doing. Amazes me how some of these clowns get there smog licence. On your 88 fiero G.T. There is nothing to do under the dash. Only thing to do in the car is make sure the check engine light comes on (key on engine off) and goes off when the engine starts. From my info MITCHELL and ALLDATA the timing is non adjustable (coil packs). Which means don't have to check. I'm wondering if he atatched something or jumpered connections at your ALDL connector. None of which should have been done!!! How did the car run when you left? Sounds like he screwed up your car!!! Before you let the car go for a low 1200.00, I would call BAR and explain you situation. Chances are you are you are not the first one to complain about that business. The number in my area (richmond) is 510-243-9410. Ask for one of the reps (drawing a blank on names) that deals with the smog program and they will help!!

KEEP US POSTED

JOEY

[waynekarnes]

thanks for the info ...

 

you are probably correct ... he connected some sort of jumper under the dash. he was digging around under the dash for about 12 minutes, kept getting in and out of the car ... looking under the hood ... crawling under it with a flash light ... looking at the sticker under the hood ... shining his timing light at either end of the engine.

 

he told me the idle was too high and he couldn't check the timing ... wasn't high when he pulled it on to the dyno drums ... was fine until he got under the dash ... as i said, once he plugged in ... it started running super rich ... and the idle running up and down ...

 

looking at the spark plug wires .. they go to an HEI distributor .. i don't think individual coil packs ...

 

it's an 88 pontiac fiero gt 2.8 liter V6 ... fuel injection, 5 speed.

 

think i should call the smog people ???

[TomoHawk]

In my area (Ohio) all they do is sit in the seat and drive on the drums @35 MPH. If the guy tried to get under the dash, I would stop him and ask for specifics. There is NO reason they should be fooling around under there.

 

Except maybe to hook up a code checker, which doesn't change anything?

 

thx

[LS1 Z]

I would call BAR. The guy didn't know what he was doing. Is your check engine light on all the time? Does it come on now with key on engine off? Do you know some one with a scanner to check for codes? Might wanna check your fuses, I believe their are 2. ecm A and B. or...... If wanna drop the car off at my shop, I'm sure I can help you!(been doing this for a long time) I'm only 45 minutes from San Jose!

JOEY

[randy 77zt]

more than 1 california smog tech on here?that tech didnt know what he was doing-complain to bar.if i remember correctly the aldl connector was in the console on fiero.if you take it to another shop and it gets fixed correctly make sure to keep your paperwork for bar complaint.and if you have a copy of the smog test from last year that will help.i have a california smog license.most of the young smog techs dont know squat -the just went to the same cheesy trade school.iwould take it to ls1 z shop-he probably has a very thorough understanding of gm efi systems.i am a ford guy.

[cyrus]

There is no connector under the dash. It is in the center consol behind the cig lighter. I have scanner if you want to scan it. I am at bernal and 85. PM me if needed.

[waynekarnes]

thanks for the support !!!

 

smog guy says the check engine light came on and went off while he was testing

 

when i drove it home, only about 2 blocks, the check engine came on when i started it and went out .. like normal ...

 

Tony, the guy buying it, tells me the check engine light came on about 4 times while he was test driving it ...

 

i drove it about 6 miles, and we swapped seats ... test engine light never came on while i was driving, nor had it ever in the past ...

 

i had forgotten, one odd thing that did happen ... after the test ride about 20 miles ??? we returned to my house ... we lifted the hood, the vac hose to the egr valve had come off ... 3rd time since i've owned it ... fit seems tight ...

 

hose was still connected during and after the smog test ...

 

after it failed ... Tony asked for the codes ... tech says didn't have any ...

 

now, we saw him under the dash, he kept going back and forth between his book and the interior ...

 

he may have eventually been in the console ... after around his 10th trip, i wasn't too sure where he was ... we were behind the car watching ...

 

but, when ever he found what he was looking for ... that's when it started surging and the exhaust got rich ...

 

after it failed, drove it home ... let it idle for maybe 6 to 10 minutes ... normal exhaust ... not rich at all ... this is why i think he screwed something up in the ecm, causing it to go into limp mode ...

 

Joey, Cyrus, thanks for the offer of the use of the shop and code detector and advise, awful nice of you guys !!! much appreciated

 

i've already cut the deal, my word and a handshake are a bond. Tony, offered that if he gets it fixed for less that 800, he'd like to pay me the difference ... bring total back to 2000 out of his pocket ...

 

after it failed the test i had told him he could take it for a grand ... i didn't want to mess with it ... at that point, Tony told me we had agreed on 2 grand ... his mechanic suggested anywhere from 300 to 800 ... 1200 and 800 makes 2000. he offered me 1200 ... 200 more than i had offered it for ...

 

so, there's a chance he may pay me the difference. i figure i'd be out that money should i fix it ... so works out the same to me.

 

if i didn't have to pay the dentist and had the money, i'd take you guys up on the offer of helping me get this all figured out and if the tech screwed up, file a report ( Tony says his friend/mechanic advised him, should he find the tech screwed up, he will report him ).

 

ohh and as is typical, the dentist found more wrong under the crown than he initially thought ... so costs went up another $500 ... $1700 ... insurance is paying 380 of it ... rotten luck ... i'm just burnt out on things going wrong ...

 

had a deal for body and paint on the scarab z ( spent the money i was gonna spend on body work instead to buy the fiero ) ... friend of friend ( buddy at work ) ... repair all the rust ( minor ) ... shave all the chrome ( including around windshield and side glass, smooth body to glass like a late model ... bodyman's idea ) shave door handles, install remote door release and alarm, drop gas tank, notch it, put battery in rear ( custom box fit into the space cleared by notching the gas tank) remove batt tray, vents on the front fenders, flatten power bulge and add custom hood scoop, weld and smooth the seam between the sugar scoops and the front fenders, custom one off hand made grille, custom hand made turn signal lights in grille, french the antenna, install and mold MSA II aero kit ... they offered to make metal flares ... turned that down ...meant replacing the brand new wheels and tires, to fill the flares. once all that was done ... custom paint job, painter said, when done, no one would be able to ever tell what the original color was ... mechanical and electrical parts were on me ... all the rest, body and paint, they were going to do for $1500 ... using it as sort of a " look at what we can do" when people came in the shop. i had to remove everything that was bolted/screwed on, and gut the interior.

 

6 to 8 months into it ... 50% finished ... silent partners force the sell of body shop ... new owner ( old high school friend of my friend's friend .. these guys are in late 30's early 40's ), agrees to let em finish the z.

 

3 weeks later, 5:30 am, i go out in the rain to get morning paper ...

 

z is sitting in the driveway ... no hood, no grille, no side glass,pieces of the msa kit shoved inside, key in ignition switch, sitting in the rain ...

 

my friend knew nothing about it, called his friend, knew nothing about it ... were gonna go talk to new owner ... told em never mind, just get the rest of my stuff and let it go ...

 

that was about 6 months ago ... no money ... z sits in driveway ..

 

anyway .. disgusted, fed up and busted ... time to thin the herd, damn my luck as far as cars go anyway ...

 

 

i do appreciate all the hands that were extended to me, great group of people here !!!

 

THANK YOU EVERYONE !!!