V3 EDIS-x installation, set up, etc.

[BRAAP]

I looked LONG and hard at trying to mount the 36-1 as close the front cover as possible but my minds eye couldn’t see anyway of realistically doing that and having it attached to the crank hub itself other than using a different balancer such as a Fluid Damper etc. Mounting the 36-1 wheel to the inertia ring on the damper would not be good for several reasons. My long term goals are to use the Flywheel as my 36-1, but for now, the front of the crank should work fine. I also looked the aluminum A/C mounting bracket from the ZX and the iron version from the early Z as a mounting bracket, but because of my new radiator, I had to mount my Alternator on the drivers side of the engine using 3 of the 4 mounting bosses for that bracket, and used the old Alternator mount as my VR sensor mount. I should have pics up hopefully by the end of today of the installed finished set up. The Alternator has already been relocated and the VR bracket is 75% complete as of this morning.

Do you have any pictures of your set up? We would love to see them.

So did you mount your 36-1 on the rear pulley/inertia ring of the damper?

[BRAAP]

Okie dokie guys…

I finally got my VR sensor just how want it for the time being and took some pics of the final “mock” assy. All that is left now is to machine some lightening holes in the brackets for cosmetic reasons, stamp in degree marks on the VR bracket for the VR sensor timing adjustment slots, paint the brackets, and assemble. The damper that is on the engine in these pics is ONLY my EDIS “mock up” damper, not a useable part. I still have to machine down my brand new Nissan Damper, (blue damper in the fore ground of the full package pic), to accept the 36-1 Wheel.

Any how, due to my current Radiator set up, I was forced to relocate the Alternator to the driver side of the engine. That went really well. After that modification, that left the original Alt mounting pad available for my EDIS-6 VR sensor mounting. After some serious head scratching on how I was going to tackle this, I settled on a two piece bracket assy. That allows for fine tuning of the VR timing adjustment and VR to 36-1 wheel clearance adjustments. I slotted the timing adjustment slots on the rotary table on the mill to the proper radius, then slotted the clearance adjustment slots enough to allow MORE than enough clearance adjustment.

 

Here are the pics thus far.

 

Below is what the entire package looks like as seen through the radiator core support. You can see the VR sensor covering up the Oil Pump.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the photo below you can see both brackets that make up my VR sensor mount. The two 8mm bolts are in slotted holes for clearance adjustment. Also, I used 8x1.25mm Heli-Coils in the VR bracket itself for that little added insurance so that I can torque the bolts down just a little tighter…

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The photo below shoes the VR bracket and the radiused slots for fine tuning the timing adjustments to make up for any installation error when I finally mount the 36-1 wheel on my new Damper. I will use approx a .008” interference fit between the damper and 36-1 wheel. 36-1 wheel fitment to the damper will be placing the machined damper in the freezer over night, and then when ready, heating the Escort 36-1 wheel in the oven to some where around 200-300 deg F, then hopefully the two parts will go together without too much fuss, (fingers crossed…)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The photo below shows a top down view of the VR sensor and 36-1 wheel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, I will be fabbing up another VR sensor bracket to fit a friends really nice 79 ZX that runs a power rack and A/C, i.e. all THREE pulleys are being utilized. In the next few weeks I will be machining a hub for the Escort 36-1 wheel to fit in front of those pulleys for his car. More on that later….

[z-ya]

Paul,

 

Looking great!

 

I got my notor back together this weekend (new 460 lift cam, fresh P79 head), so next is getting the crank trigger and wheel installed. I will mount the wheel as you have done, but I will put the sensor around 3:00. I will use the A/C mounting holes to mount the VR sensor bracket.

 

What coils are you usging? I have the Ford EDIS coil pack, but any dual tower wasted spark coils should work.

 

I plan on mounting the EDIS module where the stock coil goes, and possibly the coil pack on the passenger side fender well. I was also considering mounting the coil pack on the engine, but for reliability, mounting it on the chassis may be better.

[BRAAP]

The A/C mounting brackets will be a much easier install compared to what I did for my race car.

I was planning on using the Ford coil pack, but just yesterday while I was at the U-pull-it yard getting another Escort VR sensor, I noticed the Chrysler 6 cylinder coil pack on a Mini van and also a Chrysler car. Hmmm.. 4 wires feeding this coil pack like the Ford coil and the high tension terminals are like the GM HEI posts…. The only issue I’m having with the Ford coil pack right now is the need for those fancy clips on the coils which seems to be pert-neer impossible to get GOOD wires for. I want to run Magnacor wires. I ‘m 95% sure I’m going to go back to the U-pull-it yard today and get that Chrysler coil pack, at $25, even if I don’t use it, not that big of a loss right? I’ll report back after I get it home and get a chance to measure the low tension resistance as compared to the Ford coil pack.

I haven’t made up my mind on whether to mount the coil pack to the block or the fender well yet. If the darn oil filter boss wasn’t in the way, that would be the ideal location for plug wire routing, but as you suggested, for reliability reasons, the fender well might be better. I do find it odd that but both Ford and Chrysler has these coil packs mounted directly on their engines… apparently these coil packs can take that kind of vibration abuse…

Here is the FINAL painted pic of the VR bracket… After installing the 36-1 wheel I wasn’t totally comfortable with that press fit so I set the damper up on the mill, spot faced, drilled, and tapped 2 holes for 5x.8mm bolts. I drilled exactly at the mating line of the damper and 36-1 wheel. (I expected the 36-1 wheel to be HARD, but it is actually quite soft and very machineable.) This way the 36-1 wheel can’t rotate as it is doweled by the bolts and the bolts will also keep the 36-1 from walking fore and aft as well.

 

[z-ya]

I'm not sure where I'm getting custom EDIS wires either. These look like they would work, but are kind of pricey:

 

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=partdetail.asp&autofilter=1&part=JAC%2D4006663&N=115+4294908331+4294907830+4294924755+4294925143&autoview=sku

 

Looks like you have it timed up right (at least from what I can tell from the photo). When the timing mark on the crank pully is at 60 BTC, the sensor should be at the missing tooth on the trigger wheel. What did you use to get the crank at at an accurate 60 BTC? My timing tab goes to 30 BTC. Did you use a dgree wheel of some sort?

 

Pete

[BRAAP]

Pete,

I’ve seen other plugs that supposedly fit the EDIS coil packs with similar coil ends as those Jacobs. It looks as though the coil side of the plug fits “inside” of the Ford coil pack. Hmmm… We’ll have to look into that little more … As for Jacobs Ign, in the past I used to rave about Jacobs wires and their products, the quality of the parts from their factory was always good and I do still like their wires, but ever since Jacobs sold out and is no longer truly Jacobs anymore, (they are run by some other company), all their manufacturing went to Mexico and every set of wires of theirs that I recently purchased over the past few months has been CRAP quality in regards to the assembly there in Mexico. 5 sets of universal fit wires that I use for Datsun L-series, and a set of ceramic boot wires for a customers V-8 project. The issues I have is with their lack of training for those putting the wires together. When they silicone the ends on the idiots doing the work in Mexico are letting the silicone drip down into the sockets, down the inside of the boots, I have found sockets installed back wards, mix matched sockets in the package, etc, absolutely NO quality control coming out of the Jacobs factory any more. After I use up these final sets of Jacobs wires I have in stock, I will NOT EVER purchase or endorse any of their products. (sorry for going off on that tangent.)

 

Back to the EDIS install…

As you noted, with EDIS-6, you need to place the VR sensor 60 degrees downstream of the missing tooth. Being as this wheel has 36 teeth, that makes each tooth exactly 10 degrees, so with that info, 60 degrees is 6 teeth. Another way to set the 36-1 wheel timing when using the EDIS-6 system is to set the crank at TDC, and then count 6 teeth counter clockwise from the missing tooth, (as viewed from the front), and the very middle of that 6th tooth is where your VR should line up, as per my final picture. That way you don’t have to find 60 deg BTDC on the crank.

 

This link is good source for help with setting up EDIS.

http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/edis-hardware.html

 

Here is some more good EDIS set up info…

http://www.megasquirt.info/ms2/EDIS.htm

[z-ya]

I bought a set of Jacobs wires about 5 years ago for my turbo Z with a wasted spark setup, and they are great. No problems, and great quality. If they are under new ownership, and the assembly is now dones elsewhere, who knows what the quality it. For $65, if the quality isn't great, I'm not interested.

 

On setting up the VR sensor location, good thinking on using the trigger wheel as a degree wheel! That's a big "duh" on my part. Should have thought of that!

 

Because my VR sensor will be on the driver's side, I will use the trigger wheel as a degree wheel to get the engine at 60 BTC. With the VR sensor mounted in it's final location (I will have some adjustment slack in the bracket), I will then rotate just the trigger wheel until the center of the missing tooth lines up with the VR sensor. Because your sensor is on the other side of the engine, it is a bit easier to visualize it. Sound right?

[BRAAP]

Pete,

Yeah, off the top of my head, that sounds like it should work…

 

Finally brought home the Chrysler coil pack. It looks as though it will work just fine…

The Chrysler coil packs has what appears to be the GM HEI high Tension lug, and if that is the case, this will allow the option of pretty much ANY manufacturer of spark plug wires at a very reasonable price. I’ve tried looking for nice wires for the Ford EDIS-6 with pretty much no luck.

Specs…

Primary resistance of the Ford coil packs was measured at .7-.9 ohm on my Fluke 87, (no idea why the range other than maybe the connector on the coil pack?). The Chrysler coil pack measured .7 ohms on all three coils, so electrically, it should work.

Also worthy of note is the back side of the Chrysler coil pack is FLAT, which makes mounting it in various locations that much easier than the Ford. When mounting the Ford Coil packs, try utilizing the OE mounting bracket the coil was mounted on in its donor vehicle, this will help tremendously. The Chrysler coil pack makes mounting it even that much easier.

 

Here are the are the pics…

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, here is where I mounted my EDIS module last night. Just under the passenger fender on the forward side of that little vertical piece of sheet metal. This places it nice and close to the battery and the coil pack.

 

[73hls30]

i am using the coil packs off a stealth/3000 gt (diamond f-608). the stock bracket is easy to mod for installation near the battery. mounting the ford coil pack on the block makes the plug wires too short. cylinders 4 & 5 will almost be coil on plug. i don't own a camera for any picks.

[z-ya]

I may run the Chrysler coil pack for the same reasons you are (mounting, plug wires).

 

I'm mounting the module on the drivers side. I think it is more important to have the VR sensor cable short. As long as 16-18 gauge wire is used, the coil outputs from the EDIS module are not effected as much by length. Since you have your VR sensor on the driver side, it makes sense.

 

Make sure you use dual conductor shielded cable for both the the VR sensor and the PIP and SAW cables. Connect the sheilds to pin 7 on the EDIS module. Let the shield float at the VR sensor for the sensor cable, and at the relay board (or at the MS if you don't have one) for the PIP and SAW cable. Leave the shield available in case you need to connect it at the MS. You will need a scope to determine if you need tie the shield to ground at the MS. You what to float one end of the shield to prevent a ground loop that would cause noise on the VR, PIP, and SAW signals.

[BRAAP]

Thanks for the heads up on the shielding. I don’t really know much about shielding other than it is supposed to help keep EMF or “electronic noise” for altering or interfering with the signal being sent though a wire or pairs of wires

I “think” understand what you are saying about the floating end. By “floating” you mean don’t attach the shielding to anything on that end? What is “dual conductor” shielding? When I ordered my MS from RS Autosports, I also ordered 20’ of the “1/4” braided wire shielding”, http://www.rs-autosport.com/ (scroll ¼ way down the page and you’ll see it there).

What are your thoughts on using that for my VR, PIP, and SAW shielding? Also thought about wrapping aluminum foil around the VR, PIP, and SAW wires as well as twisting the VR wires. Am I overkilling this or approaching this shielding thing the wrong way?

[z-ya]

Yes, leave the shield unconnected at the sensor, and also at the MS. Only connect the shields for the VR and PIP/SAW cables to pin 7 of module. I know this because that is the way Ford did it fromt he factory (the shields were still intact on my module and VR sensor plugs).

 

The shield does what the name implies, it shields the low level signals inside the braiding from external interference that may have have a negative effect on signal fidelity. The signal from the VR sensor is especially sensistive to noise. The PIP and SAW signals are also sensitive, but not as much as the VR signal.

 

Yes, the picture from the RS Motorsport is a dual conductor shielded arrangement:

It has two conductors inside a braided shielding. This will certainly do the trick. This is all you need (no tin foil required). Also, there is no need to twist the wires inside the braid.

[BRAAP]

Pete,

Thank you for the tips. I appreciate your helping me with this. My strengths are engine building, performance cylinder heads and cylinder head machining, engine tuning, and a little bit of chassis knowledge. Electronics is fun, but not my strong point.

 

Your description defined the “shielding layout” of this diagram perfectly. Thank you very much.

 

[z-ya]

I'm an electronics geek first (been doing electonic hardware design and debug for close to 20 years now), motor head second. I built a bunch of engines, but my expertise is really on the electrical engineering side (that's what I do 9-5).

[BRAAP]

Thank you for sharing your electronics expertise and helping out with the electrical end of this project.

I did get the Chrysler coil pack mounted in the car today. It is mounted on the passenger strut tower. I utilized the Chrysler mounting bracket, only had to bend and twist the ear just a little and it essentially fits the car perfect for this location. I’m not overly happy with location from a cosmetic standpoint, but functionally it’s fine. I’d prefer it to be a little lower as it seems to over power the passenger side of the engine bay a bit “jutting” out as it does. Maybe next winter I’ll relocated the oil filters so that I can lower the coil pack. For now, this’ll have to do…

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the picture below, you can barely make out the EDIS-6 module nestled under the fender in the upper right corner.

 

[z-ya]

Why not just mount it flat to the shock tower without the Chrysler bracket?

 

You may want to change your oil lines to braided lines with compression fittings. I used to have clamp on hoses for my oil cooler, until one blew off. Seems that those clamps can loosen up over time. It doen't take long to pump 5 qt of oil out of the oil pan at 40psi!. It blew off in front of the radiator, so all that oil sucked into the radiator and engine compartment!

[BRAAP]

Pete,

Those hoses wont be there long, that is for sure. Like you said, those clamps do and will work loose, and as such, will be getting AN fittings sometime this year.

In the mean time, I’m going to run the current Oil lines and being as this is a SOLO-II car, it doesn’t really see much run time during races and I have a pretty strict “nuts and bolt” session I like to perform the day before each and every race, i.e. go over the entire car with a handful of tools checking all the important stuff, like fastener tightness, hoses, electrical connections, fluids etc.

[BRAAP]

Pete,

Here is that Flywheel with 36-1 cast into it that I told you I’d post here. I guess this set up is pretty common on the Euro Fords. A set up similar to this on the L-series would help clean up the front of the engine bay, especially for show cars, etc.

Any how, being as there isn’t really much info out there when it comes to custom 36-1 wheels of varying dimensions and various VR sensors, we are trying to answer all of our questions on our own.

it would be nice to know the requirements such as tooth width/thickness, depth of the gaps, etc on the 36-1 wheel, for various VR sensors so that we can duplicate the best we can, the OE signal from the VR to the EDIS module. Ideally would like to either machine notches in the back of the Datsun flywheel similar to the flywheel pictured below and mount the VR in the backing plate, or machine notches around the perimeter of the flywheel and mount the VR in the bell housing. I’m sure that as the 36-1 wheel grows in diameter, a different VR sensor will be needed as the “tip speed” of the teeth will be greater as compared to a smaller wheel at the same RPM, and that higher “tip speed” will generate more voltage from the VR as compared to a smaller 36-1 at the same RPM. Tooth thickness might also play a role in voltage production as well, but don’t really know for sure without proper measuring equipment. Also, not sure just how much voltage the EDIS module can handle on a regular basis, so we would rather be safe and just do our best to duplicate the OE signal, from all aspects, the best we can, from our custom wheel and VR arrangements, hence the need for an “O” scope.

 

 

 

[BRAAP]

Just a few quick pics of our make shift EDIS test bench in operation. Today we will fabricate a more user-friendly dedicated EDIS test bench for not only verifying that our used parts actually do work, but it will also be very beneficial for our future VR and 36-1 wheel testing once we acquire an “O” scope…

For now we did learn that VR sensor wire orientation is critical. If they are backwards, no spark, as per our first attempt. Swapped the VR leads and WA LA!! SPARKS!!

This initial test is an EDIS-4 system for the Datsun 510 of Ron’ Tyler’s wife, (his test mule,… The CAR is his test mule.. C’mon guys..). This system is using a Dodge Neon coil pack. After we get the dedicated test bench fabbed up, we’ll also test my EDIS-6 running both Ford and Chrysler coil packs and then test my EDIS-8 system destined for my V-8 Z project.

 

 

Sparks a plenty..

 

 

 

 

The test bench in its hastly prepared glory, (but it worked…), with the Escort 36-1 wheel spinning away with an Escort VR, Neon coil pack, and four NGK plugs sparking away on the Mill table…

 

 

 

 

The spinning 36-1 wheel and the DRO indicating .0475” clearance between the VR and the 36-1 wheel.. (when we opened the clearance to .090”-.095”, we completely lost the freq signal from the VR).

 

[z-ya]

Paul,

 

This is really cool! You can also use this setup to test coils for compatibility with the EDIS module.

 

Yep, all you need is a scope now. If you need help picking one out, let me know. Something like this would be perfect:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Tektronix-2215-Dual-Channel-oscilloscope_W0QQitemZ7580870142QQcategoryZ104247QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Make sure it 100% functional, and that it is garanteed to work. Stick with Tek, they make the best.

 

Are you near Hillsboro? I visit Intel on a regular basis. Maybe we can hookup on a future trip.