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V3 EDIS-x installation, set up, etc.

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I'll be interested in this one too...

 

Although I don't see where you would really gain - the EDIS will control the (dwell)spark, not MS.

 

A better idea may be a waste spark system with V3.

 

I THINK all we need to do is put in a couple more VB921's and use a couple more outputs.

 

I'd be interested to know if my understanding is correct.

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The Ford EDIS system is wasted spark. Whats nice about it is the serial interface. One wire from teh trigger, and one wire to the EDIS unit. I know there are guys running them on other engines, just wonding if anyone has put the trigger wheel on an L-Series. You can get EDSI in 4, 6, and 8 cyl versions. This place is selling used junkyard units:

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~beanbooger/boost_engineering/

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Yes the MSII sends it signal, and this signal contains the timing information. There is a slight processing delay, which can be nulled out using the trim adjustment in the MS and a timing light. Yes the dwell is controlled by the EDIS, which is fine, because it is optimized for the EDIS coils.

 

The problem is that when you use the distrbutor with MSII or MSnS_E, it limits your timing adjustment range. With a direct fire ignition with crank trigger (EDIS), you have complete control over timing. You can adjust the timing in ways that are not possible using a distributor.

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I have all my parts and am bench testing everything now, It will all go on the car after I get my wbo2 hooked up and running smoothly. This will all be run on ms&s extra.

 

Im also working on edis4 on 2 other ms cars so I am knee deep in ford ignition at the moment.

 

If noone else beats me to it I was going to offer up an out line for the setup to be posted, kind of a step by step from mobys setup to a running edis 6 motor.

 

Sam

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i am having the 36-1 wheel machined to a 81 crank pully. if the alt. and water pump pullys can be repositioned, then i just need to use the only v-belt grove on the balancer. without the original crank wheel and inner pully there is plenty of room for the exploder vr sensor and the wheel will be easy to adjust.

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the edis system works. i need to address a fuel leak issue before any street time, but the spark tests passed. i have a v2.2 board with 2.25b531 installed. the 81 turbo adjustment bracket with the explorer vr lined up perfectly with an adapter made out of a piece of sheet metal. relatively easy set-up.

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Ok guys. I’m starting my MSnS-E install utilizing the ford EDIS-6 distributor less ignition parts on my “F” prepared SOLO-II auto cross Z car. I have been researching this EDIS ign for quite awhile and purchased two complete EDIS 6 systems, one for my race car, the other for a friends ZX project. I also purchased a complete EDIS-8 for my V-8 Z, and a complete EDIS-4 system for my good friends Datsun 510. Prices for all the EDIS parts, used, from the local “U-pull-it” wrecking yard ranged from $40 to $75 depending on who was manning the counter when I payed for it all. That included the Coil pack, EDIS Ignition module, VR sensor, 36-1 wheel, electrical connectors with approx 12”-24” of harness attached and even the plug wires. I commend Ford for locating all the EDIS ign parts in such a way all within the engine bay, that it now only takes me no longer than 15 minutes to pull the entire EDIS system for 6 cylinder set up, (even faster for the 4 cylinder) I pull the coil-pack from a 4.0L Exploder AND the damper and VR from a 1.9L Escort, and that includes the time to walk over to the Escort to pull those respective parts. To easy.

To make a long story short, I purchased several VR sensors, from the Escort, Ford Exploder, and also several ABS sensors as well from BMW, GM, Ford, and few others to experiment with different VR mounting ideas.

At this moment, I currently have my mock up Datsun 280Z damper machined down with a Ford Escort 36-1 trigger wheel pressed on. Almost looks factory. This set up renders the forward pulley of the 280-Z damper useless. For a race car or street car without A/C, no biggee.

These pics show current progress as of this afternoon including three of the VR sensors that I’m leaning towards, though not sure which I’ll utilize at this point.

Long term plans are to locate the VR sensor in the bell housing or steel backing plate between the engine and flywheel, and machine the 36-1 teeth into the flywheel itself. Ford had been doing for the European EDIS equipped cars for years apparently. I see it as way to clean up the front of the engine a bit.

I’ll update as I progress and will also show the progress for the 3 pulley ZX crank trigger and VR mount as well. It most likely wont be till mid to late summer before I look into the Flywheel crank trigger. Might do that on the V-8… Hmmm…

 

Damper1Small.jpg

 

Damper3Small.jpg

 

Damper2Medium.jpg

 

EDISfrontSmall.jpg

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Paul,

 

Great photos. This is exactly what I am planning for the supercharged L28 track 240Z I'm working on. We must be on the same wavelength or something because this is exactly how I was planning to do it. Machine off the outer pulley so the trigger wheel has a snug fit. Then align it with the trigger, and weld it in place. The only difference i that I will have a SC pully on the outside so I may locate the trigger wheel closer to the inside pully (up against it).

 

My trigger wheel is a little rough on the inside. Looks like it was cut with a plasma cutter. Did you clean up the inside of the trigger wheel before machining the pully to fit?

 

When deciding where to put the sensor, install an alternator, belt and water pump pully. I've done a couple of crank trigger setups, and you kind of forget where the belt is going to be. I plan on putting mine around 3 O'clock (from the front of engine).

 

Keep us updated, and I'll update my progress again soon.

 

Pete

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My 36-1 wheel is also a bit rough on the ID, though it looks more like scuffing from being pressed on at the factory and my removing it from the Escort damper. My damper in those pics is just a junk mock up damper, I plan to throw it away and as such I machined the interference fit to only approx .0005”-.001”.

My race car has a brand new Nissan damper that I’ll machine down once I’m ready, but with a .006”-.007” interference fit. I don’t plan on welding mine as the damper and ring fit was .006”-.007” interference fit on the Ford Damper, (fingers crossed mine doesn’t come loose…).

As for the belts and ancillaries, Z-YA hit a very important part of fabricating… This is for ANYONE wanting to fabricate new additions to current configurations…

ALWAYS take into account EACH and EVERY possible ancillary, bracket, hose, belt, pulley, protruding bolt, etc, before you build a new bracket for something such as the VR sensor. If you leave even just one bolt out while mocking up, Inevitably you’ll put it your shiny new part right in the path of a belt, or a radiator hose, water pump pulley, etc.

As for mounting the VR, I’ll definitely take a look at he 3:00 position based on your recommendation for the standard Z set up. I would like to offer “36-1 trigger wheel and VR mount kits” in the future for those wanting to go DIS. My Race car is having the alternator relocated to the driver side so I can retain one of my Ron Davis Radiators, so I’ll likely mount this VR on the pass side and will try and utilize the original alternator mounts on the block for the bracket to hold the VR. I’ll dig more into that today, not sure how far I’ll get though. I’ll be sure to keep you posted and I’ll take lots of pics along the way.

Keep us posted on your progress, pics are always help…

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I'm not sure that I would rely on a press fit to hold the trigger wheel on, especially on a high RPM race motor. If it were to fly off on the track, it would cause some serious damage.

 

I have access to one of those rotating thingys for welding. You can set the RPM, and the part turns while the welding tip stays stationary. You can get a super smooth and controled circular weld.

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initially i thought of mounting the 36-1 wheel on the front of the balancer, but was worried about vibration problems. redrill the powersteering pully to repace the water pump pully, modify the lower alternator bracket to move the alternator foreward, flip the alternator top bracket for adjustment and the wheel can be mounted closer to the motor. the 81 a/c bracket has a nice stock adjustable bracket for the vr sensor to mount on. for my install the explorer sensor lined up better than the one off of the mustang.

 

hope this helps your installs.

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I looked LONG and hard at trying to mount the 36-1 as close the front cover as possible but my minds eye couldn’t see anyway of realistically doing that and having it attached to the crank hub itself other than using a different balancer such as a Fluid Damper etc. Mounting the 36-1 wheel to the inertia ring on the damper would not be good for several reasons. My long term goals are to use the Flywheel as my 36-1, but for now, the front of the crank should work fine. I also looked the aluminum A/C mounting bracket from the ZX and the iron version from the early Z as a mounting bracket, but because of my new radiator, I had to mount my Alternator on the drivers side of the engine using 3 of the 4 mounting bosses for that bracket, and used the old Alternator mount as my VR sensor mount. I should have pics up hopefully by the end of today of the installed finished set up. The Alternator has already been relocated and the VR bracket is 75% complete as of this morning.

Do you have any pictures of your set up? We would love to see them.

So did you mount your 36-1 on the rear pulley/inertia ring of the damper?

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Okie dokie guys…

I finally got my VR sensor just how want it for the time being and took some pics of the final “mock” assy. All that is left now is to machine some lightening holes in the brackets for cosmetic reasons, stamp in degree marks on the VR bracket for the VR sensor timing adjustment slots, paint the brackets, and assemble. The damper that is on the engine in these pics is ONLY my EDIS “mock up” damper, not a useable part. I still have to machine down my brand new Nissan Damper, (blue damper in the fore ground of the full package pic), to accept the 36-1 Wheel.

Any how, due to my current Radiator set up, I was forced to relocate the Alternator to the driver side of the engine. That went really well. After that modification, that left the original Alt mounting pad available for my EDIS-6 VR sensor mounting. After some serious head scratching on how I was going to tackle this, I settled on a two piece bracket assy. That allows for fine tuning of the VR timing adjustment and VR to 36-1 wheel clearance adjustments. I slotted the timing adjustment slots on the rotary table on the mill to the proper radius, then slotted the clearance adjustment slots enough to allow MORE than enough clearance adjustment.

 

Here are the pics thus far.

 

Below is what the entire package looks like as seen through the radiator core support. You can see the VR sensor covering up the Oil Pump.

 

PackageMedium.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the photo below you can see both brackets that make up my VR sensor mount. The two 8mm bolts are in slotted holes for clearance adjustment. Also, I used 8x1.25mm Heli-Coils in the VR bracket itself for that little added insurance so that I can torque the bolts down just a little tighter…

 

VREDISaMedium.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The photo below shoes the VR bracket and the radiused slots for fine tuning the timing adjustments to make up for any installation error when I finally mount the 36-1 wheel on my new Damper. I will use approx a .008” interference fit between the damper and 36-1 wheel. 36-1 wheel fitment to the damper will be placing the machined damper in the freezer over night, and then when ready, heating the Escort 36-1 wheel in the oven to some where around 200-300 deg F, then hopefully the two parts will go together without too much fuss, (fingers crossed…)

 

VREDISMedium.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The photo below shows a top down view of the VR sensor and 36-1 wheel.

 

ClrncLarge.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, I will be fabbing up another VR sensor bracket to fit a friends really nice 79 ZX that runs a power rack and A/C, i.e. all THREE pulleys are being utilized. In the next few weeks I will be machining a hub for the Escort 36-1 wheel to fit in front of those pulleys for his car. More on that later….

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Paul,

 

Looking great!

 

I got my notor back together this weekend (new 460 lift cam, fresh P79 head), so next is getting the crank trigger and wheel installed. I will mount the wheel as you have done, but I will put the sensor around 3:00. I will use the A/C mounting holes to mount the VR sensor bracket.

 

What coils are you usging? I have the Ford EDIS coil pack, but any dual tower wasted spark coils should work.

 

I plan on mounting the EDIS module where the stock coil goes, and possibly the coil pack on the passenger side fender well. I was also considering mounting the coil pack on the engine, but for reliability, mounting it on the chassis may be better.

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The A/C mounting brackets will be a much easier install compared to what I did for my race car.

I was planning on using the Ford coil pack, but just yesterday while I was at the U-pull-it yard getting another Escort VR sensor, I noticed the Chrysler 6 cylinder coil pack on a Mini van and also a Chrysler car. Hmmm.. 4 wires feeding this coil pack like the Ford coil and the high tension terminals are like the GM HEI posts…. The only issue I’m having with the Ford coil pack right now is the need for those fancy clips on the coils which seems to be pert-neer impossible to get GOOD wires for. I want to run Magnacor wires. I ‘m 95% sure I’m going to go back to the U-pull-it yard today and get that Chrysler coil pack, at $25, even if I don’t use it, not that big of a loss right? I’ll report back after I get it home and get a chance to measure the low tension resistance as compared to the Ford coil pack.

I haven’t made up my mind on whether to mount the coil pack to the block or the fender well yet. If the darn oil filter boss wasn’t in the way, that would be the ideal location for plug wire routing, but as you suggested, for reliability reasons, the fender well might be better. I do find it odd that but both Ford and Chrysler has these coil packs mounted directly on their engines… apparently these coil packs can take that kind of vibration abuse…

Here is the FINAL painted pic of the VR bracket… After installing the 36-1 wheel I wasn’t totally comfortable with that press fit so I set the damper up on the mill, spot faced, drilled, and tapped 2 holes for 5x.8mm bolts. I drilled exactly at the mating line of the damper and 36-1 wheel. (I expected the 36-1 wheel to be HARD, but it is actually quite soft and very machineable.) This way the 36-1 wheel can’t rotate as it is doweled by the bolts and the bolts will also keep the 36-1 from walking fore and aft as well.

 

VRDONEMedium.jpg

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I'm not sure where I'm getting custom EDIS wires either. These look like they would work, but are kind of pricey:

 

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=partdetail.asp&autofilter=1&part=JAC%2D4006663&N=115+4294908331+4294907830+4294924755+4294925143&autoview=sku

 

Looks like you have it timed up right (at least from what I can tell from the photo). When the timing mark on the crank pully is at 60 BTC, the sensor should be at the missing tooth on the trigger wheel. What did you use to get the crank at at an accurate 60 BTC? My timing tab goes to 30 BTC. Did you use a dgree wheel of some sort?

 

Pete

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