Got Cold Feet and Stopped

[Guest vanir97]

I need help. I was going to put a remote solenoid on my car (painless unit) but just got cold feet and stopped. After reading all the horror stories in search, and not knowing what terminal on the mini starter was which I just gave up.

 

I have 3 terminals on the starter. 2 posts and a flat spade terminal. i do not want to screw up anything so i just stopped. I feel stupid but I do not know how to proceed. All the search directions might be clear to you folks, but they are greek to me. On the starter there are no letters or anything. Just one post has battery wire, the other has a wire that goes into the starter, and then the flat terminal. i am totally mixed up.

 

any simple instructions.

[Mike C]

If one terminal is not hooked up now, it won't need to be after the remote solenoid either. The 3rd post sends 12v to the coil on GM cars that came with points. SInce the ignition coil is powered through a resistor wire on those cars, they only get about 9v when cranking.

 

First disconnect the battery positive cable. Then mount the remote solenoid on the car. Remove both the ignition switch wire and battery cable from the solenoid. Make a 10 ga jumper wire (or use the flat solid metal adpater with the solenoid kit) to jump the ignition switch wire you removed terminal and the battery cable terminal on the GM solenoid. Now fab a short battery cable that goes from the GM solenoid to the SWITCHED side of the remote solenoid. Hook the ignition wire that you removed from the GM solenoid to the ignition terminal of the remote starter. Now hook the battery up to the remote solenoid. Reconnect positive battery cable and drive.

 

If you are concerned about any of the directions, mine or the factory's, leave the wires off the GM solenoid. After the remote is hooked up, use a volt meter to test for the correct switching and voltage based on key position.

[Guest vanir97]

All 3 terminals have wires attached. It is a points system. Now that middle terminal would that be the "i" terminal they mention in the directions. Also the post next to the block is that the "s" terminal.

 

So now follow me on how I would hook it up.

 

1. disconnect all wires on BAT post on mini starter solenoid and attach to a large post on side of remote solenoid Y/N?

 

2. Run a large gauge wire (O/1 GA) from other large sided post on remote solenoid to "s" post on mini starter (post closest to block) Y/N ?

 

3. Take wire from middle terminal " i " and run it to the " i " post on remote solenoid.

 

4. That leaves one small post terminal empty (is that the " s" terminal on the remote solenoid)

[Mike kZ]

Here, this will help! : http://www.oldengine.org/unfaq/solenoid.htm

[Pop N Wood]

I like the hook up shown in MikeKZ's link better. The way MikeC says to hook it up will also work, but IMO has the disadvantage of having the main starter current being switched through both solenoids. There is no reason for this and could cause a voltage drop to the starter should the contacts in either or both solenoids get a little corroded.

 

There is a third way of doing this that bypasses all of the contacts in the GM solenoid, but I think it will just further confuse things.

[Guest vanir97]

Spke with the tech guy from painless. I am just about squared away, but he said that since it was a non-HEI system I would have to run a wire from the "i" terminal to the coil side of the ballast resistor.

 

Does that sound right. First time I heard this, and I have read about all the posts/replies about the subject.

[Mike C]

OK PopNWood, you've got my interest. How do you bypass the GM solenoid completely and yet still engage the starter? Obviously the Ford starter doesn't need the arm to initiate bendix engagement but IME, the GM starter doesn't do so well when its solenoid is removed.

[Pop N Wood]

You don't really remove it, you just jumper over all the switching done by the GM solenoid.

 

Run the battery cable to the Ford solenoid. run another heavy cable from the switched side of the Ford solenoid to the big lug on the starter. Then hook up jumpers on the back of the GM solenoid so all of the lugs are connected together. This includes the S terminal, the batter cable lug and the post coming out of the bottom of the GM solenoid and into the starter. Then hook up the S and I wires from the car to the lugs on the Ford solenoid.

 

This way all current switching is done by the Ford unit, and all the GM unit has to do is push the starter pinion into the flywheel.

[Mike C]

I need to re-evaluate my ability to explain...

 

Except for jumpering the 12v to distributor during start (which is not present on some solenoids anyhow and seems pointless since you are just looping it if it is "jumpered") that was what I was attempting to describe. The ONLY wires on the GM solenoid are the 12v batt cable from the Ford Solenoid switched side, and a small jumper that connects the large GM lug to the post where the ignition switch was removed. I make them from 10ga and ring terminals, but the Painless kit comes with a flat metal plate I believe.

 

The GM solenoid is still in the loop, you have just eliminated all of the wiring from the car from the circuit. This maximizes the voltage sent to the GM solenoid to switch which increases reliability and minimizes the hot start, which is the point of doing the Ford solenoid. The Ford solenoid still uses the GM wiring, but since the solenoid is not subject to as much heat since it is remote mounted, it has no trouble switching with the ignition circuit current.

 

But everybody looks to be on the same page with all the posts.

[Pop N Wood]

Yeah, getting rid of the second wire is a good idea. I think a drawing is the only way to go on this. I think this is what you are recommending

 

 

But I think there should also be a second jumper going directly from the battery lug on the solenoid to the lug with the wire coming out of the starter itself. That way the main starter current is only forced through the set of contacts in the remote solenoid. In the picture above, the main starter current is being switched at both the remote solenoid and across the two main lugs of the GM solenoid.

 

I imagine you have taken a GM solenoid apart. In the end there is a copper disk that gets pushed forward when the solenoid activates connecting the battery wire to the starter itself. These disks pit and corrode from all the arcing and can eventually get to the point where the starter can't get enough juice to turn. When I was younger is was standard practice to loosen the battery cable lug at the solenoid and turn it around 180 degrees to expose an unpitted copper bolt head to the contactor disk. If you jumper out the two main lugs, it bypasses this disk and lets full battery voltage go to the starter motor.

[Mike C]

Makes sense. We rotated the stud as well in addition to flipping the copper disc. But that was a 75k+ mile mod. Doing what you suggest would work great I think, but IME just not needed if you have a starter in good condition.

 

I have bailed on the old Delco style starters completely and run Hitachi style mini-starters. I had a battery cell fail in my big block GMC truck and it still started with 10.2 volts and the CVR starter.

 

I actually have 6 of the GM gear reduction starters that I got from a boat mechanic. I have since put two working ones together and have enough good parts for 3 more. These gear reduction starters are so much more efficient than the old school starters. Everybody should switch!