Mikelly Posted November 22, 2000 Share Posted November 22, 2000 Looks like we will be making adjustable control arms on an exchange basis. I'm trying to finalize the design before we set the "Firm" price, but here is how it will most likely work: We take an order for control arms.. If your car is already down and you can send us your arms, we will do the mod to them and just mail them back. If not, we should have one or two sets to send out.. Maybe more if we get adventurous and get to the junk yard to get some cores.. However, Price will most likely be $175 for fronts Plus shipping, and you must return a core within 5 business days so we can keep everyone happy and get everybodies parts to them when needed... Rears will probably be $300 plus shipping, and of course the shipping and sending your cores... Stay tuned... Mike ------------------ "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsil Posted November 22, 2000 Share Posted November 22, 2000 Damn! If you guys had started this 2 months ago, I would have gone for it, but I have already finished assembling my front suspension!!! Maybe when I upgrade the front brakes...... AL ------------------ http://refuse.netdojo.com/Zcar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno74Z Posted November 22, 2000 Share Posted November 22, 2000 Mike and Chris, This is great. What is your SWAG on build time for the front and the rear.And when you have a mule set made can you post some pictures. Danno74Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 23, 2000 Author Share Posted November 23, 2000 Once all the Heim Joints and rods are in house (trying to get a bulk price on them) we can turn out several sets in a weekend. It would not be unlikely to have two complete front and rears done on a Saturday/ Sunday timeframe. However, I should be cautious at this point since I haven't actually made them. But to be quite honest, it doesn't seem like it should take very long once you have the first set done. I'd be happy to post some pics.. I'm getting lots of interest from people so we need to get on this ASAP! Mike ------------------ "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scca Posted November 23, 2000 Share Posted November 23, 2000 i guess its time to take pics of the ones i already make to compare... also there are 4 different grades of heims.in one brand alone and most brands have 2-3 the way to compare is by radial and static load capabilities. from $11-12 ea all the way up to $50 ea in a 5/8" rod end size so its pretty easy to vary the price depending on the rod end chosen. ------------------ Mike mike@fonebooth.com http://www.fonebooth.com/brakes.html raceparts and brake upgrades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 24, 2000 Author Share Posted November 24, 2000 Well obviously we won't be using the lower end cheaper/ lighter load heim joints. Last thing I want is a control arm to sheer off in the middle of a corkscrew for someone. That would be bad. My control arms Zdr. fab'ed up for me years ago are holding up well. I'll be using those heim joints and that setup, which has served me well for 5 years. Bottom line is that the Zcar crowd can buy them from either of us, they'll be getting the same product. Mike Kelly ------------------ "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scca Posted November 24, 2000 Share Posted November 24, 2000 well Mike lets see a pic of the ones on your car... i almost like the round style tubing better.. but i cant decide. the one thing that i like (not sure from the pic that was posted) is it looks like a larger heim than i use guessing 3/4 and then a alum sleeve is inside it so you could use the original nissan bolt. is this the case or am i seeing something else? i decided to go to a 5'8 bolt and drill the x-member larger but a "true" bolt in may be better? what it really needs is a 9/16" heim but they seem impossible to find. maybe theres a engineer here who knows what load the inside of the a-arm takes. i have no idea but i cant imagine its a lot. as long as the heim is 2x that i would think its fine. ------------------ Mike mike@fonebooth.com http://www.fonebooth.com/brakes.html raceparts and brake upgrades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 25, 2000 Share Posted November 25, 2000 Mike, I'm interested but have a question. Do these joints eliminate the bushings? If so how will it affect the ride, noise, & reliability. On my Mustang I eliminated the bushings on the rear lower control arm where it mounted to the unibody by installing what are called lift bars. I ended up ripping the boxes (mounting points) from the unibody and they made the holes egg shaped. This made for a fun (scary) ride. Now so you can be more clear these were the lower 2 links to the Mustangs 4 link suspension & they were being exposed to a lot of energy. Just a concern of mine but I think you can clear this up. Glenn P.S. Any idea what shipping will run? And while I'm at it are you planing any package deals for fronts & rears? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scca Posted November 25, 2000 Share Posted November 25, 2000 coleman racing products. 906.863.7883 http://www.shorttrack.com/coleman if your going to use a tierod thats already threaded then either coleman or howe racing seems to be the cheapest. they both make their own. ( i think) i was focusing more on a a-arm that was interchangeable between a 510 and a Z.(they are the same arm-sort of ) i wanted the least machining so that replacement at a track away from home would be easier. i also didnt want to spend more time building the x-member bushings than the a-arm itself. i have a setup all done for ZX rears as for toe and camber but not the Z. i'll send you a pic of the ones in my car to see after i clean them up and repaint them.. theyre awful ugly and dirty now from season of racing.. i usually clean and repaint most of the car between seasons ..then i can check for stress cracks in all the components while i'm at it. i've broken a ball joint in a corner at 60mph and a rear a-arm so i do more examining now . ------------------ Mike mike@fonebooth.com http://www.fonebooth.com/brakes.html raceparts and brake upgrades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted November 25, 2000 Share Posted November 25, 2000 Ah yes, Southside Lift Bars - been there, done that. The reason the bars rip the torque boxes is because when you hang a corner there's no bushing there to "give" and ALL of that torque to the side goes right into the spotwelded torque boxes. Yeah, mine are cracked up too! A Panhard rod fixes that and a Griggs torque arm is best so that the top links can be eliminated. Thankfully the Z has no such monkey motion that I can see. The Mustang holds the rear in with 4 links that are intentionally made to bind up. The Z had a more or less rigidly held center section with arms holding the wheel hubs if memory serves. Ride WILL get harsher when you remove the bushings but I don't think Nissan relied upon binding or bushings to hold things together quite like Ford did. If you look up front there's a funky rod keeping the arm from moving forward and back. I do think an A shaped arm with two sets of mounts on the body would've been better but hey - it works okay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scca Posted November 25, 2000 Share Posted November 25, 2000 mike, as for the dbl threaded like a real tie rod .. so you can adjust w/o removing the attaching bolt from the car .. IMO its not necessary.. most people will not use this as a frequent thing more of a fix for incorrect camber- at least i think.. if someone was going to do solos and wanted to adj at the parking lot then for them that might be better.. .. but someone who is that serious will likely end up with camber plates in the end. ------------------ Mike mike@fonebooth.com http://www.fonebooth.com/brakes.html raceparts and brake upgrades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 25, 2000 Share Posted November 25, 2000 Hey, I would apreciate it if some one could explaine to me what a heim joint is. Does it have a bearing in it? Mike K. will you have to disconnect one end of these control arms in order to adjust them? Or will it be like setting the toe. How about a nut welded to the threaded insert with a lock nut? Sorry for all the questions but I'm trying fully visualize these arms. Thanks, Glenn [This message has been edited by Glenn Richelsoph (edited November 24, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 25, 2000 Share Posted November 25, 2000 Glenn, No, you will not have to take the control arm off of the crossmember in order to make an adjustment. Pete Paraska was over this morning talking with Mike and I about the control arms. Pete made the statement that he likes things to be easy and that is what we are striving for in the design. Believe me, it is nothing revolutionary but it will provide adjustment with minimal effort. I hope we can have a prototype set done up in a few days so we can post some pics. I have the drawings in front of me and I am really excited about the design. A heim joint is a "rod end", if you have ever been around racing go-karts they are what are attached at the ends of tie rods. Just a much larger scale. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 25, 2000 Share Posted November 25, 2000 Heim joints are also sometimes know as Spherical Rod Ends. Here is a picture: Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 25, 2000 Author Share Posted November 25, 2000 Mike, I pulled one of them off today and gave it to Chris to inspect and he, Pete Paraska and I met and discussed options for it. Mine is a 3/4 heim with a tubular steel section welded into the control arm. The original Nissan bolt was retained at the crossmember using a steel sleeve that fit inside the eyelet of the heim joing then using to outer steel bushings to make the exact fit between the crossmember sides. I'll take the other side off and send you some pics of it over the weekend. I think we have come up with a much better design that the ones I'm using though. I'll wait until we get one fab'ed up, but it should be adjustable without taking the arm off at the crossmember. Mike Do you have a number for Coleman? I had a catalog of theirs and it grew legs and walked off... Mike ------------------ "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted November 26, 2000 Share Posted November 26, 2000 Personally, I think getting some of th erubber bushings out of the way will be as nice as th eadded adjustability. I just hope that the road feel isn't "too much". My car already has a bit of rumble through the wheel thanks to a solid steering isolator. We'll see, suspension is what I'm going to be doing as soon as I get a few small things out of the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 26, 2000 Author Share Posted November 26, 2000 I have been told for years that Heim joints are for race cars only... that couldn't be further from the truth. When I installed the heim joints and steel sleeves into my car and did away with the eurethaine bushing in the crossmember I didn't feel more vibration in the car with the L6 motor in it. I certainly don't see a difference with the 383 in it. Heim joints are fine for automotive use and transmit no additional noise or vibration into the car or driver... Simply a myth, period. The one thing they do give is TOTAL agjustment of the location point the are installed in! Mike Kelly ------------------ "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted November 27, 2000 Share Posted November 27, 2000 Mike, the reasons that Heim joints or more normally found on "race cars" has more to do with their service life than transmitted vibrations. Heim joints wear out faster than rubber bushings and will need to be replaced from time to time. Oddly enough - the 3rd gen RX7s apparently have Heim joints from the factory in some locations! I've got no idea what they've done to protect them or what sort of lifetime these things have but it's long enough to be used on a production car. Buy the best joints you can, Teflon coated or whatever and you'll have a longer life before they must be yanked... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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