BLKMGK Posted December 24, 2000 Share Posted December 24, 2000 Finally got the rear strut out - darned brake lines. For grins before I start on the coil overs and rear brake conversion I decided to take a peek at the strut. Cool, it's a KYB although it's silver and I thought KYBs were white? So, I press down on the shaft to see how much pressure it takes..... it sinks right to the bottom and refuses to rise on it's own! Now, I realize these are "dampers" and not supposed to support the car but isn't this a bit umm "wrong"? I'll grant that I don't know much about this type fo suspension but it seems to me every shock or strut I've ever seen that's been marked "high pressure" popped up on it's own at least! Is it hammered" If it is is there any in particular I should consider? Another KYB? Koni? I don't want to spend millions but kripes it's all apart now so this is the time for it! TIA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scca Posted December 25, 2000 Share Posted December 25, 2000 Jim, there are silver kyb... you probably have blown the gas seal they should be extened all the time with a pressure shock. kyb are a decent insert for the dough ~$45 ea? for $65 ea i put in tokiko gas, IMO the illlumias arent worth the extra $ as MOST people seem to run them on setting #3 AND when i spoke with tokiko the regular shock has the same valving as a illumina on 3.... so unless you run it on 4-5 might as well save the $ ------------------ Mike mike@fonebooth.com http://www.fonebooth.com/brakes.html raceparts and brake upgrades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted December 25, 2000 Author Share Posted December 25, 2000 Okay, I didn't think I was crazy but before I spent still more cash I wanted to be sure. Car rode fine so I dunno' what happened! Adjustable sounds nice for being able to soften them up for the strip and then firmer later on. Cost is what will rule this decision on that I think. $65 each is no biggie, $200 each, now THAT would be a biggie Wanna' bet the other side is blown when I yank it too? Hrm, okay where are you finding your prices? Illuminas are running about $150, the regulars about $80 or so from VBA and MSA. Is there someplace substantially better? Kripes, it's just shocks There are also two lower brands of Tokicas - one low pressure it looks like. 5 wyas may be just too much if I've got to do all four and while I'm at it I might as well... [This message has been edited by BLKMGK (edited December 24, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Purple240zt Posted December 25, 2000 Share Posted December 25, 2000 Dude, i cant reccomend www.shox.com enough. Prices are killer. I paid 120 each for tokico adjustables. If you can afford it go for it, if not dont sweat it. I did the adjustables. Yeah they are alright on 3 but the true advantage comes when you want to bias front to rear. Its also cool to set them softer for long highway drives. Saves your butt some soreness!! Evan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted December 25, 2000 Author Share Posted December 25, 2000 I spotted shox.com and asked for a quote - we'll see. Actually the prices Mike quoted are about what I'm seeing in a couple of places. All in all not too bad but if Shox can do better than I'm all for it! I did find a place that seems to sell bushings pretty cheap http://www.suspension.com/nissancars.htm I had bought a pile of urethane from MSA awhile back on sale and done some of them but now I can't find the rest! Argh! These suckers are hard as rock too so I'm not sure if they've got any compliance at all. That site sells Energy bushings so I've gone ahead and ordered a full set. Some I won't need but the savings of the set was worth it and less hassle. Watch, the other ones will show up right about the time these arrive on my door step (sigh). I may have some bushings for sale later on FWIW - Mike's right about the cost difference of Tokica over the base KYBs like I've got now. I don't know how many miles are on mine but the one I pulled is TOAST in a big way. If I can get the 5 ways for $120 I might just do it and hope I don't have to replace them for a good long time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 25, 2000 Share Posted December 25, 2000 Skip MSA/VB and get the shocks from nopi or any mailorder/local speed shop, you'll save lots of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted December 25, 2000 Author Share Posted December 25, 2000 Well, here's what I got from SHOX.com ======================================= Your Car: 1972 DATSUN 240Z (2WD) Preference: TOKICO Product: AUTOS Supplier: TOKICO Model: 240Z/260Z Year: 1970-741/2 Premium Performance Front: HZ3015 Premium Performance Rear: HZ3016 Illumina Front: BZ3015 Illumina Rear: BZ3016 Special Prices on products for your 70-78 Nissan 240Z-280Z Tokico's are Shocks $239.00, Tokico Illumina's (externally adjustable) $449.00 KYB shocks $169.00 Sets of 4 Sway Bars,S/T kit F&R $229.00 Coil Over Kit, $399.00 includes Eibach ERS springs, no struts. 0 to 2.5' lowering Strut Brace,N/A Eibach 1" lowering $199.00 (lowers 1") Suspension Techniques springs $169.00 ( lowers 1") Energy Suspension complete urethane bushing kit $149.95 Powerslot Rotors $69.95 each front , and no rears Carbon Metallic Brake Pads $49.95 per axle. =========================================== I've seen prices pretty close to the $449 from a place or two. GroundControl wants close to $500, MSA and VB close to $600! SHOX bushing price isn't too bad IMO, it's close to what I paid at the URL I linked above. Nopi's vaunted "Online Catalog" is down so I've no idea what they'd charge - I'll try later. Here's another -> http://www.cyberauto.com/ "Tokico Illumina Adjustable Strut Cartridges: '70-74 BZ3015, Front, $119.31 ea '70-74 BZ3016, Rear, $119.31 ea" Not sure I'm willing to pay $400+ but the $200 range isn't too bad for all four corners. Question is - is it worth $50 a corner to go with the adjustable ones? Hell, I'll spend more than that on tires or wheels easily. Appreciate the tips guys, keep 'em coming. I'll probably order tomorrow. Still have to get the rear spindle pins and need a passenger side control arm for the rear too if I can find one - MSA wants $120, VB $140. Will work on coilovers and brakes in the meantime if it gets just a little warmer [This message has been edited by BLKMGK (edited December 25, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFryer Posted December 26, 2000 Share Posted December 26, 2000 Try Arizona Zcar at www.arizonazcar.com They have Koni D adjustables for $59.00 each. The ones that I have on my 260Z work great with my cut down Nissan Euro springs. Also if need be Koni's are rebuildable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted December 26, 2000 Author Share Posted December 26, 2000 Duh, didn't even think to look over there. With the grief I've gotten in the past from that guy it hadn't even occured to me! Don't ever try buying fiberglass from him (grr). Anyone else use the Konis? His sites says "extremeley stiff" and that they must be used with stiffer than stock springs. The price is certainly right - I'm surprised I've not seen the Konis in a 240Z app any place else. Is it possible these are adapted to this application? Woul dit make sense for me to consider strut inserts for other apps with a spacer? I'm not interested in cutting my strut housings down - I don't need to lower my car that severely. TIA! P.S. He's got tubular rear suspension arms. $249 apiece. Hrm, might have to chat with my chassis guy and see if he thinks he could build a set of them easily. I did find a used arm to replace my damaged one at ZBarn for $25. Need to call them up ASAP I finally realized that the arms are the same for both sides only flipped over (smack). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted December 26, 2000 Share Posted December 26, 2000 I have the Koni D adjustable from AZC and I have had two sets on two different cars. They are adjustable as well as rebuildable. They are a little stiffer from the outset, but I like them and recommend them highly. And yes, Dave at Arizona Z is a RPITA, but the price is realy nice... Mike ------------------ http://hometown.aol.com/dat74z/myhomepage/auto.html "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted December 26, 2000 Author Share Posted December 26, 2000 Well let's see... rebuildable, adjustable, and $59 a corner. Man, that's tough to beat! I've got Konis on th eMustang, they work just fine for me. Next question is, can they be found elsewhere cheaper and from what app did they come? If the guy had't been so damned mean and ornery the last time I spoke with him I'd pick up the phone this moment and call him! Price isn't the issue here, it's his customer skills! I'll hunt aroound and see if his part #s come close to matching up with anything out there and report back what I find. Thanks for the feedback Mike, hell for that price it's worth a shot to try them. Waitaminute! ZBarn sells adjustable Konis too - for $190 a corner! Want to bet that the Arizona cartridges aren't adjustable? Mike, did yours come from ArizonaZ and were they red? Hrm! The ones in his picture ARE adjustable - you just have to zoom in like mad to see that. No part # visible of course. Okay - I smell a rat -> http://www.classicgarage.com/classicgarage/parts-koni-shocks-nissan--datsun-.html Note the cost difference on the adjustable carts. Non-adjustable might be okay though and the price is right. ArizonaZ has to be selling the non-adjustables with a pic of the adjustables up on the site (grr). Also, it looks like the Konis must be REMOVEd in order to be adjusted - yes? http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:www.mame.mu.oz.au/salman/zsuspens.html+koni+strut+adjustable+datsun+240z&hl=en if so that pretty much defeats the purpose for me. A BlueBird site mentioned Monroe as being pretty good and working as well as Konis in a racing situation. Who'd have thunk it? Same posting mentioned the Tokicos as being really good as well. http://bluebirds.datsun510.com/Nov98/msg00119.html Yes, I'm going round in circles here! At least the next poor guy who worries about this will have lot's of info to peruse [This message has been edited by BLKMGK (edited December 26, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scca Posted December 26, 2000 Share Posted December 26, 2000 first i'd be willing to bet $$ that the AZZ ARE adj/// BUT NOT GAS! to adjust you must collapse the strut and turn it... IMO these are CRAP... i'm trying to make my point here who wants to take their car apart to adjust it..ALSO if youever lower the car signicantly (mikelly may have shortened his struts?) if you once bottom out a koni its junk.. the ride will be far better with the tokiko gas non-adj than the koni D. the koni gas adj is a completely different shock than the D its external adj and a real shock. the D is a design from the 70's and shock technology has come a LONG way since then..when i worked at a Z shop i replaced LOTS of them in the early 80's we put kyb in all cars - (tokiko didnt exist back then)and every customer was happier with the kyb than the old koni.. my personal ranking would be kyb tokiko reglar illumina bilstein gas koni gas only and then all dbl adj shocks-- and if you check the pricing generally follows the quality. koni D i didnt include as theyre discontinued, and i wouldnt use them anyway- (oh and i know a shop that bought a truck load in the early 90's for about $5 a shock!) ------------------ Mike mike@fonebooth.com http://www.fonebooth.com/brakes.html raceparts and brake upgrades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted December 26, 2000 Share Posted December 26, 2000 Mike is right in the fact that they are older model shocks (Koni D series) and you need to compress the rod to adjust them. However, I have run several different types over the years and the D series performed well for me. Then again, I also liked the Boge struts MSA sells, and you simply can't go wrong with Tokicos. I would not use KYBs on anything. Buddy of mine was the manager of a parts store for 7 years and quit stocking KYBS and wouldn't put them on his 300ZX anymore because they would blow the seals within 5000 miles on a regular basis. Caused him to part company with a major wholesaler because he refused to carry their KYB product line in his store because of the rate of warranty returns. My buddy left the business about 16 months ago, so we aren't talking very long ago. Jim, Check out Boges, as I used them the whole season I autocrossed and won a championship... very compliant and they come stock on Porsche 911s! Mike Kelly ------------------ http://hometown.aol.com/dat74z/myhomepage/auto.html "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted December 26, 2000 Author Share Posted December 26, 2000 Welll - interesting on the Koni Ds - thank you! MSA looks to only stock Tokico and KYB now. The KYB I just pulled from the car now looked to have little obvious wear yet is blow about as bad as can be. Tokico supposedly bought out a competing brand for the stuff they run on the 240Z and I'm starting to lean that way. Heh, I had actually nearly ordered some Koni gas carts but held back - glad I did. This won't be a daily driver so perhaps the base Tokicos will be fine - after all it's not like I even knew the KYB was dead till I pulled it! Thanks guys, appreciate all the feedback! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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