Mikelly Posted January 26, 2001 Author Share Posted January 26, 2001 OK,here is the problem...Without going broke, I'm converting to 5 lug 5x4.5, so can't I use any of the standard aluminum hats available in the racing/ Manufacturers community? Mike/ SCCA you have got to have already investigated this... you are worse than me when it comes to being thorough... Anyway, another question is Can't I use a over the hub design??? And on the rears, what 5 lug full race options do I have? I think since the cost is minimal to go to 13 inch rotors, and sicne this thing isn't going to see a bunch of street miles per year, why not go with the 13" setup, right??? Keep the info coming guys... You're getting me closer and closer to an open road race... Mike ------------------ http://hometown.aol.com/dat74z/myhomepage/auto.html "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scca Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Mike. if you want the 13" yes its not more, skip the bolt on part and go weld on. (the welding is a piece of cake to do) the $ you save on the brackets willoffset the rotors. while on the slide over hub issue.. this requires a 3" hat. to cover the offset. your starting with a 3.4-4" piece of 8" OD billet (at $20 INCH!) so just in material alone your way over what i do. yes i researched the hat idea to death all Late models are a 5on 5 pattern, Coleman will make customhats but the wholesale price they quoted me was $165 each (and that was for the ones i use now) for a slide on it would likely be around $250 each. for the rears i put all the same setups that go on the front for hte rears. i've done 3 cars so far with the big setup on all 4 corners. while at first this seems like a true "overkill" it is actually cheap in the end as you can swap pads front to rear, put new in the front as they wear save for rears, just use a prop valve and limit the rear pressure. your not having to stock extra pad compounds then as well. and IF you ever decided to get real serious carrying only one spare caliper kit or caliper is much easier! also 1 rotor fits all 4 corners. ------------------ Mike mike@fonebooth.com http://www.fonebooth.com/brakes.html raceparts and brake upgrades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Some of Wilwood's hats are "undrilled" - Doesn't Coleman have that option? Drilling for lug holes ought to be easy for just about any machine shop, although I'd prefer one with a rotary table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAMIE T Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 I may be wrong , but I understand that OEM use rear disc brakes to help with nose dive under braking, supposedly they apply pressure first. Therefore the rear pads wear sooner, thats what happened on my Z28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scca Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 coleman offers undrilled as well and they do offer a pattern change option inthe pricing but you Must use a off the shelf part. None of the existing latemodel hats were the correct offset for this setup. coleman offers cast hats but lets compare billet ones. their billet late model ones are $120 each and adding custom pattern is $15 so $135 each and then you need to mess with the calipers to mount then where the hat has put the rotor. and this is already more than i charge for the hats.. as for the rear disks well that may be true on the nosedive area its not true on the pads for a race car setup. its the pad material that wearing fast. not the fact that they are doing a lot of work!my race car rear pads last 5+ races my fronts last 3-4. oh and some new cars (chevy are notorious for this) use such soft pads for "soft pedal" that the pads last less than 6 mos onthe street- Pathetic! not sure if rear disks apply pressure first as due to the fact that one large piston should react slower than 4 small ones up front - the rears will "start" to brake first but not really apply pressure until the fronts do. the rears may react faster but at a lower performance threshold.. hope i've confused the issue some more hell i've started to confuse myself in this mail! ------------------ Mike mike@fonebooth.com http://www.fonebooth.com/brakes.html raceparts and brake upgrades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAMIE T Posted January 27, 2001 Share Posted January 27, 2001 Thanks SCCA, I'm reeeaaaal confused now. Not really, I think I understand. Let me know about those brackets, I think you mentioned Maxima. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted January 28, 2001 Share Posted January 28, 2001 Been offline for a few days and I know I'll forget something in this response.... Tires overheating have never been my issue once I hit R compounds (even with streets brakes overheated on mine and even current 4th gens with ducting etc), although I"m VERY green at driving so far. You state what those GT2 cars may hit (ie. 150+) but what are they hitting and are those oval track stock cars you reference or.... (not a lot of brake strain in oval track) I'm not arguing and as per my original statement..if it's important enough to you and your application is unique enough to be unproven in it's form I feel it would only be prudent to run the calcs. PS why do you assume your 12x1.25 Coleman's have greater heat capacity than my 13" brembo's? Your colemans' weigh over 19lbs? Just a sidebare, greater braking capacity in any form allows more modulation and fine usage of what is in OEM a narrow range we have little control over...more brake and that 90-100% braking effort is a lot more FUN:-) ------------------ Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scca Posted January 28, 2001 Share Posted January 28, 2001 Ross, we'd have to compare side by side. but since the coleman rotors are 1.25" and curved vane they have a far greater ability to dissipate heat than a .81 " oem rotor. the ability to dissipate heat is what i am mainly trying to point out. 1) any cast iron caliper cannot eliminate heat as fast as alum. (and i think billet is better than cast for strength ) 2)the thickness of a rotor as well as directional vanes contribute to heat dissipation, with ducts it prevents heat build up . 3)the outlaw/wilwood/ type calipers incorporate stainless steel pistons to further elimintate heat transfer to the fluid. 4)some models (ie outlaw 4000) also incorporate stainless steel heat shields next to the pistons for the same purpose. you'd have to drive a car on slicks to know the difference.. a R compound radial is NO where as sticky as a slick... i go about 2 seconds faster a lap at mission on slicks...the more corners the more time savings. i dont know how to figure it out but the tire patch and CF (coefficient of friction) that the tire has would be something to determine. i would be willing to bet$ that a GT2 car with warm tires/brakes will comletely outclass a "street car" when it comes to a 100mph to 0 stop.. back to the race car comparisons. Winston cup cars run 2 road races and they use the same setup as this.. (they buy brembo calipers and use a 1.38" thick rotor but the overall style is the same and same rotor diamater..) Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scca Posted January 28, 2001 Share Posted January 28, 2001 Ross, we'd have to compare side by side. but since the coleman rotors are 1.25" and curved vane they have a far greater ability to dissipate heat than a .81 " oem rotor. the ability to dissipate heat is what i am mainly trying to point out. 1) any cast iron caliper cannot eliminate heat as fast as alum. (and i think billet is better than cast for strength ) 2)the thickness of a rotor as well as directional vanes contribute to heat dissipation, with ducts it prevents heat build up . 3)the outlaw/wilwood/ type calipers incorporate stainless steel pistons to further elimintate heat transfer to the fluid. 4)some models (ie outlaw 4000) also incorporate stainless steel heat shields next to the pistons for the same purpose. you'd have to drive a car on slicks to know the difference.. a R compound radial is NO where as sticky as a slick... i go about 2 seconds faster a lap at mission on slicks...the more corners the more time savings. i dont know how to figure it out but the tire patch and CF (coefficient of friction) that the tire has would be something to determine. i would be willing to bet$ that a GT2 car with warm tires/brakes will comletely outclass a "street car" when it comes to a 100mph to 0 stop.. back to the race car comparisons. Winston cup cars run 2 road races and they use the same setup as this.. (they buy brembo calipers and use a 1.38" thick rotor but the overall style is the same and same rotor diamater..) Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 quote: Originally posted by scca: Ross, but since the coleman rotors are 1.25" and curved vane they have a far greater ability to dissipate heat than a .81 " oem rotor. the ability to dissipate heat is what i am mainly trying to point out. 1) any cast iron caliper cannot eliminate heat as fast as alum. (and i think billet is better than cast for strength ) 2)the thickness of a rotor as well as directional vanes contribute to heat dissipation, with ducts it prevents heat build up . 3)the outlaw/wilwood/ type calipers incorporate stainless steel pistons to further elimintate heat transfer to the fluid. 4)some models (ie outlaw 4000) also incorporate stainless steel heat shields next to the pistons for the same purpose.Mike I didn't go 13" rotors to have .81" thick Sounds like you're comparing to an OEM setup whereas you know I have quite different. My are Brembo from their performance division of superior metallurgy to their usual domestic/import line and the top ones IMO don't have vanes but a different internal structure with far greater open surface area in the 'vented' portion through which you can see thru allowing far greater heat dissipation and airflow (any serious setup has ducts anyhow, so vanes are mute). My calipers are aluminum with SS inserts as well courtesy of PBR. We'll just have to be happy enjoying our own setups:-) This summer I might just be pitting for you as I don't see any funds for any motorsports till I've been back working for a while:-(O) ------------------ Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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