Mikelly Posted February 14, 2001 Share Posted February 14, 2001 I started removing the drivers side floor pan last night and found what I suspected I would find...Lots of rust. The complete pan is now gone and after removal I noticed once again just how half assed some folks do a job. Guy that did the pans never treated the metal used to replace the pan. As a matter of fact, he sandwhiched the old rusty pan with untreated metal... This trapped rust in, then he por15'd both sides of the two pieces of metal he sandwhiched the original pan with and sealed it with seamsealer... Effectively trapping rust inside the layers of metal. I'll remove the passenger side pan tonight and get the 18 gage steel sheet tomorrow to replace the pans with. I hope to have all the floor pans back in place by no later than next weekend. This does afford me the chance to better build the cage around the frame rails that currently exist and to tie the cage footers into the rockers and the subframe. I think the car will be much much stronger when I'm finished. I'll take lots of pics and post them on Yahoo. Goal is to have the car back on the ground and rolling around by March 1, so I can prepare for the 1 piece front end. Mike ------------------ http://hometown.aol.com/dat74z/myhomepage/auto.html "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted February 14, 2001 Share Posted February 14, 2001 To only have a LIVE CAM in Mike's Garage. The best never rest!....so Mike, when do you eat and sleep JS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted February 14, 2001 Share Posted February 14, 2001 Curious as to why you chose 18ga. Are you gonna bead it or put some folds in it? 18ga is not all that strong. I guess the rail is right under it, so perhaps it's not that critical... I used 14ga, which was a bit harder to work with, but is very solid. ------------------ 240Z.jeromio.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted February 15, 2001 Author Share Posted February 15, 2001 I have some 18 gage in stock but I dont have enough to do the job completely. Maybe I'll check out the 14 gage stuff. It isn't load bearing as I'm running some 1/8inch flat to tie on the roll cage to the subframes and trans tunnel and the trans mount to the subframe! I'll let you know. Mike ------------------ http://hometown.aol.com/dat74z/myhomepage/auto.html "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted February 15, 2001 Share Posted February 15, 2001 quote: Originally posted by John Scott: To only have a LIVE CAM in Mike's Garage. No offense Mike as you have an excellant packaged car-but, do your neighbors ever ask what kind of Frankenstien your building? Of course if I were your neighbor you'ld probably have to run me off w/a stick as your car seems like the kind of set up all of us would like to have. About the floors; since you have them out & it is your goal to do the 200mph thang; have you considered stepped underbodies, diffusers or turning vanes to redirect the air in an attempt to sssllipppp thru the air w/minimal drag by removing the usual turbulence? Wouldnt now be the time to consider such a radical animal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted February 15, 2001 Share Posted February 15, 2001 When I did mine, i was shooting for 16ga as it seemed like a very good balance between strength and weight. But at the time, the source I use had either 18 or 14. The rigidity difference between the two was big. And for the amount that I ended up using, only a few pounds weight difference. But really, even 18ga is thicker than that stuff they used to build these cars out of. Is that some metric thickness? Perhaps equiv. to 19.5 ga or something? At any rate, the stock setup has some bends and folds in it for added strength - much easier to go with flat than mess with creating fancy deformations.... ------------------ 240Z.jeromio.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drewz Posted February 15, 2001 Share Posted February 15, 2001 For the reason of workability I used 16ga floor and went with the boxed 14ga frame rails. At the rear diff. I boxed it in to the stock reinforcements since they were in perfect condition, a shock since the complete floor had to be removed. My car can't be any stiffer without a cage. Look mom no sheet metal break!!! LOL ------------------ The only stupid question is one you wanted to ask but never did!!! http://ca.photos.yahoo.com/andrewzcars Drewz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted February 15, 2001 Share Posted February 15, 2001 BTW, Drewz car is insane. Hehe. $50 wasn't it Drew? A LOT of fabrication time has been spent. Looked great when I saw it. Proves that with the right skills, tools and time you can restore anything! ------------------ Richard Lewis 1972 240z - L28TURBO transplant ongoing! Drax's 72 240Z Turbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted February 15, 2001 Author Share Posted February 15, 2001 Lets just say my Neighbores think Im nuts and the local car guys generally don't believe me when talking about my car unless it is with me or they have experienced the tail lites. As for difusers, I'm working on making the bottom of the car flat in the center section, including a trans tunnel pan fitted with DZEUS fittings. I'm trying to Sink the frame rail into the interior of the car, so all you see on the bottom is a flat surface from the rocker to the frame rail, flat across the frame rail, and then flat to the trans tunnels upright. From there I'll have to weld in the DZEUS brackets for the trans tunnel pan. I'm also welding up my drive shaft loop while I'm at it. If I can get enough support financially I am going to try to get the car to a wind tunnel in North Carolina. Goal is to get some real numbers on it and then correct some things, and go back in for re-test. I'm shooting for a couple of high dollar sponsores, but the bottom could fall out in a hurry and I'll be going solo to the desert without data and without support. Mike ------------------ http://hometown.aol.com/dat74z/myhomepage/auto.html "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted February 15, 2001 Share Posted February 15, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Mikelly: If I can get enough support financially I am going to try to get the car to a wind tunnel in North Carolina. Mike [/b] Mike, if you can get access to a wind tunnel; you've already got 95% of most race car designers beat; the only designers that have that pull is usually the Auto Mfg's. Good luck in that area-hope you can pull it off. Just curious; what about wheel housing turbulence. I dont know what your plans are there...but something simple for the front you may keep in mind-The 69-70 Dodge Superbirds that had the vent scoops on top of the front fenders; when the cars first came out the Engineers told everyone they put them there as the tire/wheel kept bottoming out over bumps....only years later the truth came out. Dodge/Ply discovered extreme front wheel turbulence at high rpm; once they cut the wholes in the top of the fender & placed the vent scoop over it-turbulence all but disappeared. Its simple; but of course it means you'll need another pair of fenders. I've also considered fabricating (paying someone to do it-as my metal fabricating skills are minimal) 70's/80's Pontiac T/A side fender vents into my Z; either for A) to vent the front wheel wells connect a tube (Tunnel) from the engine bay to the side fender vent to aid in venting the heat from the engine. Do you plan on venting the rear wheel housing at all; if you have everything else theorectically air tight do you even need to vent the rear wheel housing? Also have you thought about turbulence coming in from the side of the car: Like, maybe installing a side lip instead of a skirt that widens as it runs further to the rear; or do you prefer a skirt? I guess either should prevent any air leaking underneath at high rpms. I was also curious after reading your bio on your personal site; is the whale tale still on the car & is it affective; are you keeping that on the car when you make your attempt at the 200mph mark? What about a chin splitter incorporating your diffuser to your underbody mods? So many possibilities, so little time. Sounds like you have your work cut out for you....hope you make it; would be pretty cool for a V8Z to break the 200's not to mention be able to put that on a Resume'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted February 15, 2001 Author Share Posted February 15, 2001 Damn, Kevin Sure is curious! All good questions. I'm ordering up a one piece front end made of fiberglass, so modifying it won't be an issue. I'm already looking at puttung a naca duct in the center to feed the intake ALA a VIPER GTS, and putting in vents for the fenders up front to reduce the turbulance at the wheels is something I'm already looking into. One thing of interest is that the way most of the NASCAR and open road racer crews deal with this is to actually get the wheel/tire combo out flush with the fender and tighten up the gap in the fender to wheel. That helps as much as venting. The other hot ticket is running (I'm working on the design for this as well!) a combination Chin Spliter and front Belly pan to aid in defusing the entry air on the front of the car. As for the rear wing, I'm still undesided on it. I took the car up to 155mph and the down force on the rear spoiler caused the spoiler to body seam to crack the length of the left side base. I'm actually thinking about a aluminum or sheet steel rear wing. They work wonders on providing rear downforce, but can actually rob the car of some HP. I love the look of mine, but it may have to go! I'm already searching for a clean rear hatch to modify! FYI, I know where a wind tunnel is. I just don't know that they will let me use it, and at what cost. Last info I got from someone else who did it was $10,000 for two days!!! Mike ------------------ http://hometown.aol.com/dat74z/myhomepage/auto.html "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted February 15, 2001 Share Posted February 15, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Mikelly: Damn, Kevin Sure is curious! I'm ordering up a one piece front end made of fiberglass, so modifying it won't be an issue: ALA a VIPER GTS: Last info I got from someone else who did it was $10,000 for two days!!! Mike Mike, Curious-yea but not ususally to this degree. Its merely coincidental that I was reading a book on Downforce (or should I say Negative Lift) when I read your bio/posts on wanting to go 200mph-that triggered the curiosity bug in me. Mike, I know your free time is mostly on your car (& now wedding), you being the resourceful one that you are, have you ever checked into making your own miniture wind tunnel-modeling your car in miniture scale & checking the results that way. Sure the hard part is doing it; but there are books, books & more books out there on the subject; $10k for two days-I dont think I could sleep the week prior to testing my car. I'ld be a nervous wreck making sure I had my plans ready on what to test if Plan a,b,c didnt show positive results. About the wing, definately go w/a stronger unit; dont leave this, possibly once in a lifetime opportunity, to chance. On the nose you mentioned "ordered a glass one piece" does this mean you had one customized: or bought one already on the market & you'll merely connect the ducting once its installed. If it is a customized nose: where, who, how much & when will we get a chance to see a picture of it? Does the maker of this nose plan on making addt'l noses (keep those molds) & if its a good looking piece & functional to boot would he give us (Hybridz) a discount if we made a group purchase. Dont have to worry about the group thing now-you obviously have bigger things to tackle; but just something to consider & keep on the back burner. Cant wait for pictures & wint tunnel results! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted February 15, 2001 Author Share Posted February 15, 2001 Kevin, Just pickin' man. I have checked into mini tunnels and into a couple other ways to get aerodata and best thing I could get from anyone was the real deal. Unless you park that puppy in a tunnel ya just can't get true and accurate data. If I can't get the backing, I'll be doing this on the "FEEL" of the car. My plan is to take the car to Atlanta Raceway to do some lap days on their oval and also to get out to a couple other oval tracks (Possibly Talledaga!) and do some testing at speed. We'll see. What I would like to do is capture was much data on the car at speeds from 125mph on up to the 180s and go form there. The front nose is made by MAS and I plan to tweek it whe it arrives. Mike ------------------ http://hometown.aol.com/dat74z/myhomepage/auto.html "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted February 15, 2001 Share Posted February 15, 2001 Mike, Thanx for the info & I knew you meant nothing by it so no need to worry about my feelings-I'm very thick skinned....just dont talk bout my Mamma, "That woman's a Saint"! Seriously tho, good luck & Remember we want pic's; lots of pic's of the front nose, ducting/diffuser well into the underbody. Kevin, [This message has been edited by Kevin Shasteen (edited February 15, 2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest needwaymorespeed Posted February 16, 2001 Share Posted February 16, 2001 Great posts getting a z to hit 200 would be AWESOME!! Mike where are you getting youre 1 piece ftont end?? is it designed like a gnose?? I saw you posted mas? never heard of mas before Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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