how come people dont likethe 4x4 swap?

[fl327]

i can see a lot of the guys on the site here and there cars are so modified that it only makes sense that they go all wheel disk with wilwoods or outlaws and what not, but there are a lot of us with what you might call your

"average" hot rod, the low buck cruiser, in my case a daily driver that has a little bit of throttle. well, i cant afford anything like that in terms of a brake setup and have been looking into the 4x4 toyota swap, ive owned several toyota trucks and think that they brake exceptionally well, and could only imagine what good pads and solid lines could do for my Z,, but i never see much anything good written up about them except that they provide "even braking pressure"

anyone out there acutally like their 4x4 setup??? and i also want to keep my drums

and was wondering if anyone has upgraded the linings for some spirited driving, i do take a street race every now and again, and would like to have an upgraded braking system, but i cant afford to go nascar. hope i dont enrage anyone but i do hope to get some feed back, thankz yall

[Guest Frank280z]

I'm using the 4x4 cals on my Z. I never drove it w/ the original setup. But I could tell you that it stops WELL. Last yr. I ran the rear drums. I just upgraded to 280ZX rr. cals. Using stock rotors all around. Braided stainless lines throughout too. From Motorsport. They're Earls. Nice solid pedal.

[blueovalz]

I run larger rotors with the floating 280ZX calipers. The reason I chose these was because the 4 puck Toyota calipers extend beyond the wheel mounting surface on the hub enough so, that wheel spacers are required (unless the wheels you have has an unusual amount of space between the spokes and the hub. Price: when I did this 8 years ago, it cost a grand total of $200 for the good salvage parts (this was for all four wheels). The ZX calipers do not extend outward this far, and thus my "normal" wheels do not require a wheel spacers. As the money gets a little greener, I plan on the SCCA treatment, but will require a different backspacing on the brake hub before I purchase them.

 

Terry

[Guest Anonymous]

I believe the best you can do with the rear drums is to put old iron 510 drums on with a decent set of kevlar shoes. The 510 drums supposedly have less flex. I ran this for a while (it was a little better) but eventually went to early '79 280zx rear discs and calipers with a custom bracket. I have the Toyota 4x4 calipers with redrilled '85 Maxima rotors on the front, now and the braking power and feel is much better than stock. I think the only real disadvantage to the Toy 4x4 calipers is that they are kinda heavy.

[jeromio]

I did basically the same thing as Terry did for the front. It didn't cost that much - calipers were $20/pair from the yard + $20 rebuild kit + $5 paint + $15 pads. The rotors I bought new for $40/each, but that's a wear item that you have to replace eventually anyway.

 

My braking perfomance has increased tremendously.

 

When doing the rear susp., I discovered some cracks in one of the drums. Drums are a huge PITA maintenance wise, and the cost of upgrading to discs was a wash. Of course, I didn't pay anything for the bracket I made (did take quite alot more effort to fab than I thought it might though). You do have to factor in removal of the stubs which is also a pain (hopefully a one time pain) which then leads to the cost of bearings and seals = around $150 (yes, surprising). But again, this is sort of something that ought to be done anyway on a 25-30 year old car. In other words, for the rear, if it's working, keep it. But if you want an upgrade, it might be easier to just move up to discs.

 

But as to the front end, caliper only swap, my opinion is that for roughly the same dollars and only marginally more effort, you can get much better performance from the ZX vented rotor swap. Increasing clamping force on a rotor that is unable to shed the heat you're putting into it is not going to do much to improve braking.

[Guest Anonymous]

Man am I relieved... I thought this topic was refering to swapping 4wd into the Z... shiver...

 

Lone

[RedNeckZ]

I have both the early and later Toyota calibers on my Z's at this time. The early calipers are on with the drum setup. It is better then stock and not that bad on the track, pads are semi-metal. The racing Z has the 300Z front disc conversion and 280ZX conversion on the back. A whole lot better both on the track and on the street. You can do either one. While you are at it, go ahead and change the master brake cylinder to the bigger 280ZX 15/16" model. If you go with discs all the way around, don't forget to take out the brake pressure adj. valve. It is located above the rearend. I hooked mine back into the line without a adjustable pressure valve. You can if you want to. Look into the search mode for alot of info on it in this forum. It gave me a lot of help, Good-luck.

[jeromio]

BTW, on my setup I haven't done anything else to the system beyond switching to stainless/teflon hoses.

 

I have the same Master cylinder (which I presume is a 240 unit?) and the same (stock) proportioning valve.

 

I bought a fancy adjustable proportioning valve, but have not installed it and actually don't plan to at this time. My brakes feel very well balanced. The fronts lock up before the rears. Very little pedal effort, and although I have no data to back it up, I am very happy with the performance.

[BLKMGK]

Nothing wrong with the 4X4 setup, especially the vented one. However some of us want the looks of the larger brakes and the added braking ability that you get. Don't forget though - if you can lock the tire up at will a bigger brake won't stop faster. It might fade less under hard repeated use but it won't stop shorter. I expect the 12 inch brakes on my car to lock pretty easily when I'm done but that I'll be able to modulate them well too. The rear brakes are where it's a crapshoot - ZX, Maxima, custom Outlaw stuff - lot's of options, many with solid rotors. Don't forget the E-brake too, keeping it is a PITA and finding brackets can be difficult. Go with good padsshoes, braided lines, and go with the Toy calipers - it'll be pretty good but not look anything like the Outlaw stuff Nothing wrong with that at all IMO, different strokes for different folks.

[randy 77zt]

i can tell about actual track(thunder hill,laguna .sears point)about earlier toy 4x4 calipers on stock rotors.running porterfield track pads the rotors will warp after about 10 minutes but no fade.i have solid rotors now but when rotors were drilled it worked better.in rear i have 84 300 zx rear rotors and willwood calipers and it works great.front needs to be upgraded for track use but always works on street.i run some generic pads on street and they have lasted for 4 years.the race pads last about 4 track days.i will probably upgrade to 300 zx rotors with bigger toy caliprs too get vented front rotors.if you run track pads they chew up rotors .the willwood pads in back are easy on rotors but squeek.there is no such thing as a tame and quiet race car.

[fl327]

thanx, sounds good for toyota calipers for me, just need to get these pictures up of those enkies, had to mount the back ones prematurely do to baldness, fit fine though

im going with some good semi metallic pads with those toy calipers and ss lines, 15/16 bmc, and some good drum linings for now...

ill email you with some pictures once i finish up this roll of film and get to a scanner. thanx for your help everyone

[Dan Baldwin]

Here I go again....

 

For a street car, the stock setup with fresh fluid, good street/track pads, and Nissan shoes is more than adequate. Good performance, light weight, cheap, and easy.

 

That's what I run on my '71 3.1 liter for track days (15 - 25 min. stints). Braking performance is excellent, pedal stays firm, and I have no problem keeping up with M3s. My usage, while a bit less severe than REAL racing (I do track days and time trials), is orders of magnitude more severe than what a street or strip car sees.

 

As far as the 510 cast iron drums go, they're ugly and heavy, and I can't imagine they would improve performance. I think that one must be a myth made up by 510 owners so they can get our aluminum drums.

 

My only brake mod other than pads is stainless steel flex lines. Didn't like relying on the 30 year old rubber lines.

 

Dan Baldwin

'71 240Z 3.1

COMSCC #7 SPB