Anyone Ever Tried This Cam Maker?

[Guest Mike]

Hi All,

 

I'm ready to make a few improvements to my old SBC 350. A new cam and heads are my first changes. Of course, I'll match everything to my performance goals... I'm afraid grumpyvette will yell at me if I don't:icon50: I'm ashamed to admit that I'm such a coward:oops:

 

Okay, here's my QUESTION... Has anyone tried Camshaft Innovations (Cam Master Jay)? He custom grinds cams and machines heads. Or am I better off sticking with Crane or Competition? I hope to solicit some help from grumpy to match components and tune this engine right so I don't mess it up:confused2

 

Hey there grumpy... this is for you:shifty: ...just kidding:razz:

 

Many Thanks all!!!!

[jnjdragracing]

I have used Comp Cams, and was very satisfied with them. They have reground the cam I am running now.

 

John

 

Hi All' date='

 

I'm ready to make a few improvements to my old SBC 350. A new cam and heads are my first changes. Of course, I'll match everything to my performance goals... I'm afraid grumpyvette will yell at me if I don't:icon50: I'm ashamed to admit that I'm such a coward:oops:

 

Okay, here's my QUESTION... Has anyone tried Camshaft Innovations (Cam Master Jay)? He custom grinds cams and machines heads. Or am I better off sticking with Crane or Competition? I hope to solicit some help from grumpy to match components and tune this engine right so I don't mess it up:confused2

 

Hey there grumpy... this is for you:shifty: ...just kidding:razz:

 

Many Thanks all!!!![/quote']

[grumpyvette]

like always think it thru, the larger and older companys have more experiance, have more money invested in newer equipment, and spend more on research, I use these companys because both the tech support and products are very good, modern computer designed lobes are far supperior to the older designs in most cases and the larger companys have up-dated most if not all of thier older designs

 

CRANE..Tech Line - 386-258-6174

http://www.cranecams.com/

 

CROWER..Phone: 619-661-6477

http://www.crower.com/

 

LUNATI ..1888-201-2066

http://www.partshp.com/Lunati.htm

 

ERSON

775.882.1622

http://go.mrgasket.com/brands.aspx?BrandID=

 

ISKY

323.770.0930

http://www.iskycams.com/

 

I don,t use

COMP CAMS

while thier products may be ok they have given me bad advice frequently and by a huge margin the worst tech support in the industry

 

while a smaller company may produce excellent cams the odds are they can,t affort the massive investment in modern digital computer controlled equipment for checks and design work, so the chances of getting a lemon is higher

[Guest Mike]

like always think it thru' date=' the larger and older companys have more experiance, have more money invested in newer equipment, and spend more on research, I use these companys because both the tech support and products are very good, modern computer designed lobes are far supperior to the older designs in most cases and the larger companys have up-dated most if not all of thier older designs

 

CRANE..Tech Line - 386-258-6174

http://www.cranecams.com/

 

CROWER..Phone: 619-661-6477

http://www.crower.com/

 

LUNATI ..1888-201-2066

http://www.partshp.com/Lunati.htm

 

ERSON

775.882.1622

http://go.mrgasket.com/brands.aspx?BrandID=

 

ISKY

323.770.0930

http://www.iskycams.com/

 

I don,t use

COMP CAMS

while thier products may be ok they have given me bad advice frequently and by a huge margin the worst tech support in the industry

 

while a smaller company may produce excellent cams the odds are they can,t affort the massive investment in modern digital computer controlled equipment for checks and design work, so the chances of getting a lemon is higher

 

Thanks Grumpy!! I recall you praising Crane above all. Is this correct? They'll custom grind an SBC cam with the LS1 firing order, right?

[dr_hunt]

Grumpy is right, I used a brand x grinder to grind me a cam, worked ok, but not like the name brand cams.

 

I like isky cams, crower and comp and run all three. Unlike grumpy, I don't like crane that much, due to similar experiences that grumpy is talking about. The important thing to remember is that people make up the company, not the other way around. So if you deal with a stooge, you'll probably get the wrong stuff.

[Guest Mike]

Grumpy is right' date=' I used a brand x grinder to grind me a cam, worked ok, but not like the name brand cams.

 

I like isky cams, crower and comp and run all three. Unlike grumpy, I don't like crane that much, due to similar experiences that grumpy is talking about. The important thing to remember is that people make up the company, not the other way around. So if you deal with a stooge, you'll probably get the wrong stuff.[/quote']

 

Okay, I'm convinced. I'll stick with a big name brand. Comp seems to come up most often so that's likely who I'll use. I agree that "people" make the company what it is... good or bad.

 

I'm also "nearly" convinced to go with dual quad carbs instead of triple deuces. I just really want that look. The 3x2's look nothing like the original GTO with 6 Webers and 12 velocity stacks but, with the right breather, they look very similar to Ferr_ri's street versions of the era with 3 Webers.

[grumpyvette]

dual quads looks good and performs just fine,if your looking to get more exotic......

http://www.camaro-untoldsecrets.com/articles/crossram.htm

the problem is NOT tuning the dual quads, that can be done very easily with experiance , the reason many low rise dual quad systems don,t make the potential peak power is the RUNNER length, twisting routes,and differant runner lengths/ design and cross sectional area of the intake designs, like this

which,while they work great in the mid rpm ranges don,t produce peak power

tends to restrict/break up, air flow and the ram effect that pacts the cylinders at high rpms and effect flow rate changes beween cylinders compared to a single plane design with its LONGER and STRAITER ports

 

BUT THIER ARE EXCEPTIONS that work reasonable well! like the cross ram intakes above!

 

read this

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/intake-tech-c.htm

 

now THATS not true on the better TUNNEL RAM intake designs BUT hood clearance and thier designed effective rpm range cause them to be less than IDEAL on the average street car

 

the reason DUAL QUADS were popular was that large flow CFM single 4 barrel carbs were not available,at that time,HOLLEY had not yet produced the DOMINATOR carbs, that could flow 1250 CFM,if your engine needed 850cfm-1200 PLUS cfm, in the early 60s you were either using a DUAL quad or similar multi carb system or you were NOT getting the flow rates you needed,or you were stuck with QUADRAJETS, or the smaller HOLLEYS in most cases

 

and yes your correct two smaller carbs with eight throttle bores can and do allow a very precise high velocity port flow when properly set up,Ive had several engines running dual quads run VERY respectable times in the low 10s, in a STREED DRIVEN CARs once SLICKS and OPEN headers were used at the track

 

maybe this will help, the CORRECT 4 two barrels (FOUR DUCES)makes a GREAT COMBO!!

 

http://www.inglese.com/tech.htm

 

 

http://66.216.94.142/product.asp?0=0&1=0&3=1245

 

http://66.216.94.142/product.asp?0=318&1=328&3=1244

 

http://www.inglese.com/price/page5of6.htm#weberman

 

http://www.piercemanifolds.com/hotrodproducts.htm

 

http://www.geneberg.com/58ida.htm

 

http://www.geersengineering.com/Terminator%20II's.htm

 

 

 

K9502 - 4 x 48 IDA Down Draught Webers

 

 

 

K9502 manifold with Cermakrome coating

 

 

 

K350 & K351 - 4 x IDF Down Draught Webers

 

 

 

K352 - 4 x 45DCOE Side draught Webers

 

 

 

K352-50 - 4 x 50DCO Side draught Webers

 

 

INGLESE CHEVROLET V8 SYSTEMS

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Part No. System Description Price

 

IA1114H S/B, IDF, 44mm Carbs $2,995.00

IA1118H S/B, IDF, 48mm Carbs $3,395.00

IA1018H S/B, IDA, 48mm Carbs $4,495.00

IA1245H S/B, DCOE,45mm Carbs. "Moon" Crossram $4,450.00

Includes:

4 x 44 IDF Carbs

Stainless steel braided Fuel Lines

Adjustable linkage

Intake Manifold

2 1/2 Stacks

Comes Assembled

$1995.95

http://www.injector.net/Weber/wildv8.asp

this has got to be a huge hp improvement over a cfi setup .they normally have a 20hp advantage over a well set up 4 barrel carb at peak and more torque and throttle responce at all rpm ranges

WHILE IVE WORKED ON AND LOVE WEBER EQUIPED VETTES I DON,T HAVE A RECORD OF THE JET SIZE USED

[Guest Mike]

dual quads looks good and performs just fine' date='if your looking to get more exotic......

http://www.camaro-untoldsecrets.com/articles/crossram.htm

the problem is NOT tuning the dual quads, that can be done very easily with experiance , the reason many low rise dual quad systems don,t make the potential peak power is the RUNNER length, twisting routes,and differant runner lengths/ design and cross sectional area of the intake designs, like this... which,while they work great in the mid rpm ranges don,t produce peak power... tends to restrict/break up, air flow and the ram effect that pacts the cylinders at high rpms and effect flow rate changes beween cylinders compared to a single plane design with its LONGER and STRAITER ports... BUT THIER ARE EXCEPTIONS that work reasonable well! like the cross ram intakes above!

 

read this

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/intake-tech-c.htm

 

now THATS not true on the better TUNNEL RAM intake designs BUT hood clearance and thier designed effective rpm range cause them to be less than IDEAL on the average street car

 

the reason DUAL QUADS were popular was that large flow CFM single 4 barrel carbs were not available,at that time,HOLLEY had not yet produced the DOMINATOR carbs, that could flow 1250 CFM,if your engine needed 850cfm-1200 PLUS cfm, in the early 60s you were either using a DUAL quad or similar multi carb system or you were NOT getting the flow rates you needed,or you were stuck with QUADRAJETS, or the smaller HOLLEYS in most cases

 

and yes your correct two smaller carbs with eight throttle bores can and do allow a very precise high velocity port flow when properly set up,Ive had several engines running dual quads run VERY respectable times in the low 10s, in a STREED DRIVEN CARs once SLICKS and OPEN headers were used at the track

 

maybe this will help, the CORRECT 4 two barrels (FOUR DUCES)makes a GREAT COMBO!!

http://www.inglese.com/tech.htm

http://66.216.94.142/product.asp?0=0&1=0&3=1245

http://66.216.94.142/product.asp?0=318&1=328&3=1244

http://www.inglese.com/price/page5of6.htm#weberman

http://www.piercemanifolds.com/hotrodproducts.htm

http://www.geneberg.com/58ida.htm

http://www.geersengineering.com/Terminator%20II's.htm

K9502 - 4 x 48 IDA Down Draught Webers

K9502 manifold with Cermakrome coating

K350 & K351 - 4 x IDF Down Draught Webers

K352 - 4 x 45DCOE Side draught Webers

K352-50 - 4 x 50DCO Side draught Webers

INGLESE CHEVROLET V8 SYSTEMS

Part No. System Description Price

IA1114H S/B, IDF, 44mm Carbs $2,995.00

IA1118H S/B, IDF, 48mm Carbs $3,395.00

IA1018H S/B, IDA, 48mm Carbs $4,495.00

IA1245H S/B, DCOE,45mm Carbs. "Moon" Crossram $4,450.00

Includes:

4 x 44 IDF Carbs

Stainless steel braided Fuel Lines

Adjustable linkage

Intake Manifold

2 1/2 Stacks

Comes Assembled

$1995.95

http://www.injector.net/Weber/wildv8.asp

this has got to be a huge hp improvement over a cfi setup .they normally have a 20hp advantage over a well set up 4 barrel carb at peak and more torque and throttle responce at all rpm ranges

WHILE IVE WORKED ON AND LOVE WEBER EQUIPED VETTES I DON,T HAVE A RECORD OF THE JET SIZE USED

 

 

You're just trying to scare me, aren't you Grumpy? :^)

 

I've seen most of these and I especially like the crossram system. Please keep in mind that I must keep my sanity with cost vs. performance/looks :^)

 

You've already convinced me that dual quads is a good compromise, Grumpy. I TRUST your judgment and this is my decision. I don't have $5K to invest in an 8 individual throttle body crossram system... though this would be the ULTIMATE :^)

 

What I need to know now is... what is the best DUAL QUAD setup for my mid/mild SBC 350?

[grumpyvette]

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM%2DCEDL302&N=700+115&autoview=sku

 

since your looking to go dual quads....this is a good deal, and personally Id have sellected this for your application

[LS1 240Z]

dont use comp cams. they are idiots, you call them up and tell them you want a cam with x specs and they will tell you it cant be done and recomend something terrible. (expecialy if you order up some big LSx cam)

 

most of the small companies dont grind their own cams, they have comp cams grind them for them. this is the way it is with thunder racing and texas speed, they both just have comp cams grind all their cams. you can get a cam ground directly from comp, but the people you will talk with will be idiots.

[LS1 240Z]

those carbed setups are hell expensive.. i am going to try to do a veloicity stack injection on my LSx motor in my car eventualy.

[grumpyvette]

"you can get a cam ground directly from comp, but the people you will talk with will be idiots."

 

 

I could have sworn I already said that exact thing in a slightly more politically correct way........

 

 

"I don,t use

COMP CAMS

while thier products may be ok they have given me bad advice frequently and by a huge margin the worst tech support in the industry"

[Guest Mike]

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM%2DCEDL302&N=700+115&autoview=sku

 

since your looking to go dual quads....this is a good deal' date=' and personally Id have sellected this for your application[/quote']

 

That's a nice setup Grumpy. Aren't smaller 4bbl carbs available than 500 CFM. I'm afraid 1000 CFM will overwhelm this motor. I thought Holley made 360 CFM 4bbl carbs. Wouldn't two of these be ideal for my 350 SBC?

[Guest Mike]

dont use comp cams. they are idiots' date=' you call them up and tell them you want a cam with x specs and they will tell you it cant be done and recomend something terrible. (expecialy if you order up some big LSx cam)

 

most of the small companies dont grind their own cams, they have comp cams grind them for them. this is the way it is with thunder racing and texas speed, they both just have comp cams grind all their cams. you can get a cam ground directly from comp, but the people you will talk with will be idiots.[/quote']

 

I've been searching and seen similar statements elsewhere. So... is Crower a better option?

[Guest Mike]

those carbed setups are hell expensive.. i am going to try to do a veloicity stack injection on my LSx motor in my car eventualy.

 

Sheesh... I've priced the EFI systems with individual throttle bodies. Now those are pricey. Nice though...

[Guest Mike]

"you can get a cam ground directly from comp' date=' but the people you will talk with will be idiots."

 

 

[b']I could have sworn I already said that exact thing in a slightly more politically correct way........[/b]

 

 

"I don,t use

COMP CAMS

while thier products may be ok they have given me bad advice frequently and by a huge margin the worst tech support in the industry"

 

Is Crower a better alternative?

[jakeshoe]

Crower has much better tech support than Comp, and Quality control.

 

I personally use a small cam grinder in Tacoma, Washington for 80% of the stuff I do.

Delta Camshaft

http://www.deltacam.com

 

There website isn't fancy, they cater to local racers and engine remanufacturers/machine shops.

 

I often use there reground camshafts in my own personal motors, I have used probably 100-200 of their camshafts ( I used to street/strip and racing build engines in the Tacoma area) without issue.

 

They can grind a cam from quite a few different profiles, and they use Comp Cams masters for alot of their stuff. That is, if you call wanting a SBC hyd flat camshaft with a 280* adv duration and ~230*@.050", you will get a cam ground using the same master lobe (it is attached to the cam grinding machine to grind the lobe to a specific profile) as the one Comp Cams uses for their 280H Magnum cam.

They also have pretty good prices on quality lifters, springs, pushrods, etc.. They stock alot of Comp stuff too.

 

I usually talk to Scott.

[COZY Z COLE]

All this dual quad talk made me think of a couple of great muscle car Beach Boy songs.

 

1.) 409... A line in it is " My four speed, dual quad, posi-traction 409."

"She's real fine my 409."

2.) Shutdown... a song of a race between a Stingray and a Super stock Dodge.

" Pedal's to the floor hear the dual quads drink.And now the Four-thirteen's lead is starting to shrink.He's hot with Ram Induction but it's understood. I got a fuel injected engine sitting under my hood.

Shut it off, Shut it off, Buddy now I shut you down."

 

 

LARRY

[dr_hunt]

Yeah, I think comp is too big for their britches. When I called for a cam recommendation for the TT motor, I got a guy, who kept talking to some guy next to him, and he finally gave me a couple of lobe profiles to request, etc, etc.

 

Ok, so I give that info to Edwards Engines for them to order the cam since it's cheaper through them than if I buy it direct from comp. They call me about a week later and tell me that those lobe patterns were incorrect and some master cam technician recommended new lobe patterns and that they ordered those instead. So, I was like ok, whatever. Well, I ordered 4/7 swap, cast iron gear, custom solid roller, what I got was regular firing order, cast iron gear, custom solid roller. So, no biggie I guess, I just decided to run it like that. The springs for this lobe profile have 250lb seat pressure and some un-godly open pressure that I can't even remember right now, but like 700lb open if I remember correctly.

 

I've never had a problem with crower or isky, but I have with crane, but at one time crane was a bigger outfit than comp. Now I think comp is bigger than crane, or at least they act like a bureaucratic giant anyway. My main complaint with crane is that they prefer wide lobe centers and I grew up circle tracking using tight lobe centers like 104 and 106 not 114. Anyway they kept recommending these screwy IMO cams for circle track engines that had wide lobe centers, tried one and it totally sucked off the corners and was a dog. Changed cams to Isky with a 104 and kicked some bootie! Amazing what a cam can do for a motor.

[Guest Mike]

All this dual quad talk made me think of a couple of great muscle car Beach Boy songs.

 

1.) 409... A line in it is " My four speed' date=' dual quad, posi-traction 409."

"She's real fine my 409."

2.) Shutdown... a song of a race between a Stingray and a Super stock Dodge.

" Pedal's to the floor hear the dual quads drink.And now the Four-thirteen's lead is starting to shrink.He's hot with Ram Induction but it's understood. I got a fuel injected engine sitting under my hood.

Shut it off, Shut it off, Buddy now I shut you down."

 

 

LARRY[/quote']

 

Heh, heh:D