Guest Anonymous Posted March 1, 2001 Share Posted March 1, 2001 I am going to start rebuilding and building up a block to put in my 280. What would be a good engine to work on? I was thinking like a 350 chevy, what enternals would be good to put in it? Jared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted March 1, 2001 Share Posted March 1, 2001 Boy, there's a loaded question. All depends on your current set up; what changes (Besides the V8) you plan on making & what your intensions are for the car after its completed....Completed is a relative term. I havent eaten lunch yet & its @ 4pm here; I'm gonna let someone else answer the rest of that question & I'll be back later tonight. Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fast Frog Posted March 1, 2001 Share Posted March 1, 2001 Jared: I recommend that you spend some time and read thru a bunch of these posts, particularily, in this forum regarding "Chevy V8Z Tech Board". Then review applicable subjects in the other forums/boards. This will be the quickest way for you to learn cause most of the "most frequently asked questions" have been answered several times. One thing for sure, obtain a copy of the JTR Datsun ZV8 conversion manual. It answers a bunch of related "how to" questions. Good luck!! Rick [This message has been edited by Fast Frog (edited March 01, 2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted March 1, 2001 Share Posted March 1, 2001 Jared, Here is the question you need to ask yourself: What do you intend to do with the car? What are your own skills and what can you afford to do? Do you plan to change the brakes and suspension? Do youplan to drive the car aggressively? Race it at the strip or autocross? I always tell guys to make a plan and then go over the plan a bunch of times and then send it out to the masses here to allow them to look it over... Then stick to that plan. I just wish I had had this type of setting to fly some of my ideas by 5 years ago! A good foundation is an older late 60s early 70s truck block 4 bolt main unit. Get some LT1 Rods and a nice steel crank and go from there... Find a deal on some used aluminum heads.. Search the yards and the forsale boards and see what you can get for cheap... Mike ------------------ http://hometown.aol.com/dat74z/myhomepage/auto.html "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 1, 2001 Share Posted March 1, 2001 Thanks for all of your help so far. I am young, and my brother and I want a project to work on. I am planning on just using the car for street/daily driver use (there are street drag races here every week). Sleeper, heh heh heh. Mikelly, that you suggest, in the last paragraph, that would be a good project. Remember this is for street and daily driver use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted March 2, 2001 Share Posted March 2, 2001 RatedR, The alluminum heads, if in your budget, will run cooler, allow you to go nearer the 10.0:1 comp ratio w/out detonation; which we all need since our under hood temp's seam to tend to run on the hotter side w/out the proper mods. I havent done the swap yet so the upgrade tips on the body/brakes will have to come from the other guys; but I can help w/some engine suggestions. You already said you wanted this Z to be a street Z; does that mean you want a Streetable Z w/out a lopey idle, a Streetable Z w/a lopey idle or a Streetable Z w/a lopey idle that is "Barely Streetable" (IMO-Barely Streetable on the street would be a pain). Do you want a hydraulic-Flat Tappet/Roller, Mechanical Roller? Does your Z have an automatic/standard trans; do you also have A/C? Just some things to think about. Kevin, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 2, 2001 Share Posted March 2, 2001 Kevin Shasteen, I dont know what idle would be the best, but I would be daily driving it (possible stop and go driving once in awhile). Once again with the rollers. I dont know which one would be in my best interest. Currently, the Z has a manual transmission, but I would be willing to swap an automatic if that would be the better thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted March 2, 2001 Share Posted March 2, 2001 RatedR, welcome! The kinds of questions you are asking are good ones. Definitely get a copy of the JTR book on doing this conversion (click here for an intro to the book and ordering information links). The automatic transmission is easier to drive in a high powered light car, and easier to convert. However, some of us prefer shifting our own gears, especially for street and road coarse use. Drag racing, usually people want the automatic for that. The JTR book is the bible on this - read it several times and then come here, read the old posts, and ask questions. Cheers, ------------------ Pete Paraska - 73 540Z - Marathon Z Project pparaska@home.com Pete's V8 Datsun 240Z Pages [This message has been edited by pparaska (edited March 01, 2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 2, 2001 Share Posted March 2, 2001 Like MiKelly sugested, with the older 350 4 bolt main block, lt1 rods and a steel crank. What else would be good to go with the engine? aluminum heads? headers? cams? etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted March 2, 2001 Share Posted March 2, 2001 Whatever trans you go with, make sure its an overdrive. If you plan on driving it on the street at all.....you will want that 5th and/or 6th gear overdrive. About the engine's performance; always remember, when someone talks about HP/Torque numbers.....ask them was that Flywheel power (AKA:Engine on a Dyno?) or was the engine tested in the car (Power Numbers retrieved from the Rear Wheels). Typically, you will lose about 15% power from flywheel to the drivewheels. So if someone spouts 400 Flywheel Hp....you can expect about 340 Rear Wheel HP. Car Craft did a Cam Comparison on 4 Comp Cams using the same engine-the only thing changed was the cam. These test were done w/engine on a Dyno. The engine consisted of a 355 SBC (350 bored .030), Comp.Ratio @ 9.7:1, using AFR Alluminum Heads 2.01/1.60 valves w/190cc Intake Runners, using Edelbrocks Performer RPM (High Rise Dual Plane) intake manifold, 750 Double Pumper & an MSD Distributor w/an MSD-6AL Box. The four cams were Two Energy Grinds & Two Magnum Grinds....all w/the same 110 Degree Lobe Separation Angle (Overlap). 1)252 Cam .432 lift on Int/Exh w/206 Duration @ .050 2)268 Cam .460 lift on Int/Exh w/218 Duration @ .050 3)280 Cam .486 lift on Int/Exh w/230 Duration @ .050 4)292 Cam .507 lift on Int/Exh w/244 Duration @ .050 The First cam, the 252, is ideal for 300-350ci engines. It made 348hp @ 5000rpm & 398ft.lbs @ 3900rpm. It made over 350fr.lbs from 2600-5100rpm's. Idles at 600rpms & made 17-18 inches of HG Vacuum. The Second cam, the 268, works well w/Small & Big Blocks. It produced, in the SBC, 380 HP @ 5400rpms & 401ft.lbs @ 4100rpms. It made at least 400ft.lbs between 3700-4300rpms. Produces a slight lope & idles at 800rpm, where it makes 16 inches of HG Vacuum-more than enough to run factory dependent vacuum accessories: Computer Engines will need a Custom Chip. The Third cam, the 280, is intended for Bigger/Badder Street/Strip Engines. Its HP peaked twice at 405 HP @ 4300rpm & 5700rpm making 404ft.lbs @ 4300rpm. It made over 400ft.lbs between 4200-4800rpm. This cam idled a noticeably choppy idle @ 850rpm and produced only 12.5 inches of HG Vacuum. A vacuum canister is required to run factory accessories. The Fourth cam, the 292, begins to trade torqhe for HP (a street engine needs torque more than it needs HP). It made 430 HP @ 6700rpm & 399ft.lbs @ 4400 & 4500rpm. (both the 268 & 280's peak torque were higher). It made more than 400 HP between 5500-6800rpm while producing more than 1hp/ci between 4700-7000rpm. Its rough choppy idle wavered between 850/900rpm & only produced 8-9inches of HG Vacuum. According to this test-they claim a Vicotr Jr. Intake would've produced another 20hp to the top-end. Hope this gives you some idea of power thru cam specs. Also remember, Most of Comp.Cams are ground w/110 Lobe Displacement Angles; this produces a quicker revving engine while a slightly wider LDA such as 112 or 113 will be more streetable w/the same Lift/Duration yet give a broader power band; the idle charachteristics will be "More Streetable". Good luck & have fun. Kevin PS: I almost forgot; all four of these cams were their Flat Tappet Hydraulic grinds. A roller cam can hanlde a slightly higher lift w/out effecting idle yet puts more strain on the valvetrain...but it frees up friction which means free hp! [This message has been edited by Kevin Shasteen (edited March 02, 2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 3, 2001 Share Posted March 3, 2001 Kevin Shasteen, thanks for all your great deal of help. Say I find a 350 4 bolt main block, have it bored (.030 over), some good aluminum heads, and headers, some aluminum intake, and say thoes 252 Cams you sugested. Would this be a good set up? and good enough for daily driver use? Jared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted March 3, 2001 Share Posted March 3, 2001 RatedR, Anytime you have a cam that allows your engine to idle below 700rpm; it is more a street cam than a strip cam. You will feel a difference indeed & it will still be faster than most cars you go up against & be extremely streetable; very versitile. Even w/a mild V8-there are a few guys here running Nitrous kits; getting pretty close to the 11's...not to shabby! It just depends on what you want & what you plan on doing w/it once you've got it! Some guys here are running rear gears in the 3.545, 3.7 & 3.9 gears-which are stock gears found in different year Z's. Tire Diameter also plays a role in performance. Tire sizes I've noticed in this forum range from 205/55/14 (22.83"Diameter) 275/60/15 (27.9"Diameter). All things to think of. I believe Mike put it more bluntly...think long & hard about what you want...ask a lot of questions & after you've got your into: Make a decision & dont look back! Questions you need to ask when choosing a set up are: 1)What will my Basic Rpm Range be? 2)What Vehicle Weight will I be going with? 3)Which Transmission will I be using? 4)What will my overall gear range be (Trans/Diff.Gears/Tire Diameter) Once you have nailed those questions down-you will be on your way to a Street/SleeperZ. Hope that helped! (I lerve to Bench Racing) Kevin, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted March 3, 2001 Share Posted March 3, 2001 Here is EXACTLY what I would do: I would get a good block, sit it asside Get a new set of Hypereutectic pistons and do the same Buy a new set of LT1 Rods (They are cheap!) and find a good steel crank or get a new SCAT Crank. Get a 6 or 7 inch harmonic balancer and a flywheel or flex plate (Depending on standard or Auto Trans) Once you have those six parts, cart them all to a good machinist and have the block gone through, Hot tanked, magnafluxed, & deck the block if needed, & I'd screen the oil ports as well and have thr block painted. Have the complete rotating assembly balanced, this is a must and I'm gonna do it on my stroker when I pull it next winter! Have them install new cam bearings, and if your'e not sure about your mechanical talent, have them build the lower end for you. Wouldn't be more than an extra $100-200 to have a competent shop build it for you! Get a good Melling Oil pump, and a decent pan (Search here on a recent thread to get the best ground clearance!). Now, go back and look at Kevin's comments about the cam selection. If you have the extra cash, you cannot go wrong with a roller valve train. They rev much faster and you will get performance gains with it. I'd go with a Hydraulic unit, because they are less maintenance than the solids, although it is believed that solid roller valve trains make more power! However, beware, the Hydraulic pushrods, rockers, and cam kit are gonna run you about $600!!!! Rockers are about $150 new, and Chromo Push rods are about $200. Then the springs, retainers, cam and lifters...But in my opinion, it is absolutely worth it. Next you will need to get a deal on a good cloyes true roller Timing chain set, a decent set of heads (Search for aluminum heads used with a 2.02 intake and a 1.6 exhaust valve.) If you are lucky, you can get a set of built heads which will have the springs and rockers already and that will reduce the above mentioned price of those! From there, it gets down to the small stuff, intake, carb, distributor selection (Mine was an MSD Billet Mechanical @ $180), water pump (Get an aluminum long shaft pump), and starter ($180) and alternator ($70). This section of parts will run you about $1000 when all is said and done. I don't recommend junk yard alternators or starters, as they will leave you stranded, and a good aluminum water pump with the long shaft is gonna run you about $140! A good decent intake, to match your cam type, will run you another $120, and a good Edelbrock or Holley 600-650CFM carb will be about $230! Then you will need plugs, wires, coil, ignition box is also prefered, and of course you will need a good carb linkage and cable. AS you can see, this project will not be cheap if you use good high end aftermarket stuff! But racers get hardup for cash and all this stuff can be had used, and that my friend is where I would prey... Like a shark. Go to the track, or check your local hotrod shop. People hang out there all the time needing cash! Mike ------------------ http://hometown.aol.com/dat74z/myhomepage/auto.html "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk [This message has been edited by Mikelly (edited March 03, 2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 3, 2001 Share Posted March 3, 2001 Would it be cheaper just to buy a crate engine?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kc6wfs Posted March 3, 2001 Share Posted March 3, 2001 Thats the route I took. It's a 330hp ZZ3 Vortec motor. I got it from a friend who works at GM and they were working on designs for 2002 motors. I hope this has a few extra goodies in it due to dyno time only at the gm plant. But yes a crate motor is a VERY good way to go. Plus you get a warrenty. Go look at the gm crate motors here http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/index.html Dave ------------------ www.geocities.com/kc6wfs/240z.html www.NitroPhotos.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 kc6wfs, I looked at that page, you said you had the ZZ3 engine, but the closest thing I could find was the ZZ4, and they are quoting $3,375.00 for it, I might be better off building one, or getting some deal from a hot rod shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 The ZZ4 you looked at includes a distributor and might even include an intake. Terrific rods in it - better than the LT1 rods, crank is decent too. Good aluminum heads on that puppy plus a roller cam - what's not to like? Oh yeah, I don't liek Hyper pistons but for what you describe they'd be fine. That's got a nice warranty too While you might find a deal at a "rod" shop it will probably have iron heads and a flat tappet cam or cost as much or more than the ZZ4. It won't be much cheaper either unless something's going on or it's pretty close to dead stock. My built 383 cost me well over $4K and was headed for $5K but my memory's a little fuzzy and I refuse to add the receipts up! That's about a 425-450HP motor, the ZZ4 is something like 350 right? Be careful when a local shop quotes HP figures too - remember it's in their interest to sell the motor. GM on the other hand knows that every mag in the world will dyno the snot out of their stuff and so if they fudge they'll be caught! Do what I did - sit down with a Jeg's catalog and price out a motor bit by bit. Add it up. Look at a ZZ4 and look at what a local shop is offering. You'll be able to see what's what pretty easily... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zfan Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 Hey guys, I live in the Dallas area and know some shops will run special deals locally as I have seen them before. Have seen short blocks, long blocks, strokers etc.. Kim Barr racing ran specials awhile back. Look in the clasifieds under motors, parts etc.. Compitition Machine, a local shop was running new 383 stroker short blocks for 2k. My point is shop around, dont be in a hurry. There are deals out there, just be patient. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 Well yes, I'd say doing the crate motor thing is the way to go, but RatedR specifically said he is on a tight budget. So I broke it down for him and gave the prices and what to expect. However, RatedR, if you can afford it, the ZZ4 is my personal favorite for crate motors. Bang for the buck aluminum heads, nice accessory package, and a warranty you just can't beat! Mike ------------------ http://hometown.aol.com/dat74z/myhomepage/auto.html "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 quote: Originally posted by zfan: Kim Barr racing ran specials awhile back.. Mike Mike, You used Kim Barr before....I used him on my Cutlass 350; engine sounds great; they definately know what they are doing & his shop gets a lot of dirt trackers not to mention busniss from the 1/4 mile trackers also. Kevin (Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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