GaijinZ Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 I have a 327 I'm planning on building, I'm wondering whats a good combination to get a high rpm motor. Planning for track use. Grumpvette any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LS1 240Z Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 sold school Z28 motors were DZ 302s, they had the 4.00 inch bore of the 327 and the 283s(?) short throw crank. reved nicely. a common thing now a days is a 377, a 400 small block that is bored with a 350 crank in it. also see the 400 block with a 327 crank in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lason Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 stay with short stroke and it will rev. Before the older guys start flaming I KNOW its not a real 302 but I would still like to build a 327block/283 crank version of the 302 and see what it does. Probably wouldnt make a whole lotta power but Im sure a lil boost could fix that problem. O yeah other things to keep in mind when wanting a high rev motor are solid cam/lifters, maybe a rev kit to keep the lifters in their place, lightweight reciprocating assembly and make sure it is balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LS1 240Z Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 its a real 302... its just not a DZ block. DZ blocks bring lotso money.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lason Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 its a real 302... its just not a DZ block. DZ blocks bring lotso money.. I agree but a lot of the die hard old skool guys have argued the point that it isnt a REAL 302 to me more than once. Other than casting numbers I dont see a difference but they all argue a 327 block with a 283 crank doesnt equal 302ci. Well TECHNICALLY the 302 was exactly 302ci either, 301.xx I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 Now that there are aftermarket cranks, you can buy a 3 inch stroke or 3.25 inch stroke and build one in a 4 bolt 350 block. Also Childs and Albert makes special bearings to run the small journal crank in the medium journal 350 block. Would get my vote if your going to build one since it keeps bearing speed down. Hotrod magazine did a 3.25 stroke small journal in a 400 block, yielding 350 cubic inches that made over 400HP very nicely in a streetable package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 I don,t know your budget,the cars weight,rear gear,tire dia. transmission ,are you required to use stock iron heads, is there a cpr or cam lift limit? or if your willing to spend a reasonable amount to be the guy with the fast car on your local track,ID need to KNOW the restrictions the rules place and the other restrictions youll face, could you be more informative or are you just looking for a generic 327 combo, YOUR BUDGET will be critical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jim Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 Really showing my age here but when I was in high school the hot set up was a 301,a 283 bored 1/8 inch over. Not all blocks could be bored that far but it was commonly done. The 327 isn't a bad buzz motor either using the 3.25 stroke crank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 back in the 1960s and early 1970s the sbc effective max displacement was limited to about 331-352 displacement simply because the heads available, and valve control tech was limited and could not supply the engines needs much above that displacement with the valve train control limits then available, flow thru the ports was limited, thats why guys like GRUMPY JENKINS built 331 sbcs in classes limited to x displacement PER LB,of car weight, don,t get confused, they could easilly have made more power with a larger engine ,even back then, just not as much power PER CUBIC INCH,once the heads and valve train control issues were worked out the 358-377 became the new upper limits for awhile, now your looking at artificial rules induced limits in racing simply because there ARE heads available that will allow a 450 displacement to work at full efficiency, buzzing the engine much above 7000rpm is generally totally un-necessary if the displacements not limited. spinning an engine past about 4500 fpm in piston speed is rarely productive,on a 327 thats 8000rpm, but it requires very expensive parts to maintain valve control and long term depenability, drop the rpms to about 6500rpm,increase the displacement to 400 cubic inches and cost drop off significantly but power stays similar or increases example 1960s http://www.kendrick-auto.com/462_chevy_head.htm today http://www.brodix.com/BD%20Series.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LS1 240Z Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 ok, those new ones for the SBC flow badass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 "I have a 327 I'm planning on building, I'm wondering whats a good combination to get a high rpm motor. Planning for track use. Grumpvette any ideas?" whats your budget and what car, rear gear, heads, typpe of transmision etc. your working with? we can suggest anything from a basic refresh with a mild cam upgrade and a few tweaks to help the power, up to a full overhaul, race build now looking over this thread again I get the feeling your most likely on a limited budget and were looking for a noticable increase over the stock engine but want to keep the costs low and difficulty level on the simple side? I appologise If you think I was jumpping on your idea, that was really not my intention, whats your budget and whats your goal, what are we working with? if your like me your budget won,t cover, nearly what you would like to do, but that doesn,t mean you can,t have a noticable increase in performance thru simple tweaks like an intake and cam swap, or if the budget will allow, new heads? lets us help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaijinZ Posted September 19, 2006 Author Share Posted September 19, 2006 I have a somewhat limited budget, but I do plan on replacing the heads. Its a small journal motor, does that limit my options? I'm planning on running a manual trans. havent decided which. When you talk about parts to maintain valve control and dependability how expensive is expensive. I can most of the assembly work myself, the parts are going to be the main cost. Thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 I have a somewhat limited budget' date=' but I do plan on replacing the heads. Its a small journal motor, does that limit my options? I'm planning on running a manual trans. havent decided which. When you talk about parts to maintain valve control and dependability how expensive is expensive. I can most of the assembly work myself, the parts are going to be the main cost. Thanks for the help.[/quote'] No, not really, I'd ditch the SJ rods and get some better rods like Eagles, also I'd ditch the 2 bolt block and go with a 350 4 bolt main, just get the special bearings from C&A. Get some forged pistons and some heads, you should be set. For valve train, your going to need to go solid to spin any kind of rpm, with matching springs, roller rockers, good pushrods. I'd run a stud girdle with anything over .500 lift and more than 6500 rpm, cheap insurance for $100, but you have to use the tall valve covers. 327's just keep pulling for some reason, the SJ works better IMO than the large journal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 ok, whats the cars weight and rear gear ratio, and tire dia.? thats important for matching the components,do you currently have a low restriction exhaust and headers,what parts do you currently have? lets assume you want the most power available fom a limited budget , and let me know if your willing to go the stroker route or want to stay with the 327 displacement? Ill ASSUME your wanting to use the basic 327 displacement unless your telling me differant? and give me some idea as to a realistic budget? you can do a whole lot more with $2000-$3000 than $500-$700 so give me a clue as to what we are working with here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaijinZ Posted September 19, 2006 Author Share Posted September 19, 2006 $2-3k, I currently do not have any other components such as headers or exhaust. I'm not sure about the weight, whatever a 71 240Z weighs, plan on running 16inch wheel w/tire, I'm guessing about 19-20inchs. Gear ratio whatevers in the r200 I just picked up, havent had a chance to open her up. I'm going to stay w/327 dis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 most of your engines hp potentials in the heads and cam combo so thats where the moneys spent,get the compression ratio close to 10.5:1 and the quench/squish distance close to .040, that may require decking the block or new pistons , which is a good idea if your not running FORGED now, as qustions about the combustion chamber options at brodix, http://www.brodix.com/ you could get cheap, but youll have a hard time beating the power Basic kit $1770 PART #158-9991007 http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?lang=-1&catalogId=10002&storeId=10001&categoryId=26161 carb $499 http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?lang=-1&catalogId=10002&storeId=10001&categoryId=28293&searchItemId=320561 Brodix Race Rite 180 Straight Plug Combo 158-9991007 Kit Includes: • Complete Race Rite Heads • Intake • Valve Covers • Head Gaskets • Intake Gaskets • Exhaust Gaskets • Carburetor Gaskets • Valve Cover Gaskets • Head Bolts & Washers • Intake Bolts • Spark Plugs • Brodix Hat Lifters $119 http://www.competitionproducts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=651080DL cam $119 http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=ERS%2DE110721&N=700+4294925232+4294924497+400247+115&autoview=sku http://go.mrgasket.com/pdf/Chevrolet.pdf rockers $299 http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=ERS%2DE928003&N=700+4294925232+4294924497+400247+4294839887+115&autoview=sku your looking at a basic kick butt street combo once you add the headers youll need on that car, with its manual trans, Id strongly suggest a 3.73-4.11 rear gear, its the LITTLE STUFF THAT ADDS UP OR GETS IGNORED so I tried to use a KIT that includes most of that stuff totals at $2808, youll need shorty headers , and a non-restrictive exhaust so, your looking at about $3000, but all good quality matched parts that will allow you to BUZZ that 327...it will idle with a pronounced lope and have less than ideal street manors but launch at 2800rpm and hold on , it will zip up to about 6500 almost faster than you can shift, with a 4.11:1 rear gear and slicks/suspension personally Id go with a fairly heavy 30 lb steel flywheel and blow proof clutch and bellhousing many 327s were small rod journals so if you need connecting rods BE SURE you order the correct length/dia rod If you need to get into the short block,youll want to assemble the short block with getting a 10.3-10.5:1 cpr and a set of 6" aftermarket rods and keep the quench/squish at about .040 pistons http://kb-silvolite.com/forged.php?action=details&P_id=378 rods http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/se...ategoryId=10239 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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