wigenOut-S30 Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Gabe: For sheer top end performance, I'd say the T61, but I believe that for road and track use the best of the non ball bearing units would be the TO4E 60 Trim. Imagine that eloongated "S" going from bottom left to the max on the squirrel site running either right through or right alongside the highest efficiency island on the map for it - we're talking area under the curve man! It looks like it would beat the 50 trim easily... My current turbo that is up for sale right now was a t04E 60 trim. I didnt get full boost in 4th until 3800.. 1st only saw 15psi, 2nd saw full boost around 5K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-ManQ45 Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Gabe: Was that with a stage 3 or stage 5 turbine and .63 housing? Which one. If it was with a stage 5 then the T61 won't be any better. I'm thinking that if you're gonna limit yourself to 6500 rpm, then either stage 2 or 3 or possibly clipped stock turbine, just to get onset of boost lower. Once again - I looked and could find no specifics on the turbo setup that you were running other that a Precision Turbo unit 59/62. but when I go to the Percision Turbo site I can't find any info using that data.... I'm trying to remember on here who maintains that for stock cam keep stock turbine, and there are a lot of people who disagree. The fact that your boost doesn't hit where you want it to seems to indicate that the turbine is what you need to look at. The compressor section that you already have will definitely do the job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wigenOut-S30 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 It is a stage 3 wheel on the exhaust side. It is a nice turbo but it would be much more suited to drag from what noticed personally. I did autocross it and it seemed 1st gear was too low and 2nd gear didnt even allow me to open the gate. It did ok.. but not great. The cam Im about to put in my Z is a Non turbo "A" cam. its supposed to allow me to make power close to 6500rpms from what I have researched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-ManQ45 Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 From what you are saying (and not saying), I suspect the 50 trim and clipped or stock (maybe stage 2) turbine would be best all around - even just putting a clipped turbine on the compressor you already have may do it... When I replaced my burned up turbo @ 134K, I got an S-3 Trim 70 A/R compressor section and a clipped turbine. Noticed no difference in boost onset rpm, but it sure did build boost faster! If you are more interested in road.autocross, I'd definitely not even consider the Stage 3 or 5 with any of the stock cams....there's really not a GREAT deal of difference between them as it related to the turbine section.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wigenOut-S30 Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 From what you are saying (and not saying), I suspect the 50 trim and clipped or stock (maybe stage 2) turbine would be best all around - even just putting a clipped turbine on the compressor you already have may do it... When I replaced my burned up turbo @ 134K, I got an S-3 Trim 70 A/R compressor section and a clipped turbine. Noticed no difference in boost onset rpm, but it sure did build boost faster! If you are more interested in road.autocross, I'd definitely not even consider the Stage 3 or 5 with any of the stock cams....there's really not a GREAT deal of difference between them as it related to the turbine section.... Actually you might find the stage 5 is WAY more efficient with very minimal loss in spool. Ask Garrett or Austin.. both had the stage 5 exhaust wheel. you may sacrifice 100 RPM spool for much more efficient flow. I'm basically looking for a all around turbo.. and I personally believe I have found it.. borg warner S256 or GT3076R.. only problem with them is cost.. next best thing I have come up with is the To4E super 50 compressor side and .63 AR stage 5 exhaust side. From mine and my buddy ray who knows a great deal more about turbo's then myself.. It will spool up nice( should get 19-20psi by 34-3500 even in second gear) Im going to give it a go..I will report back with how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-ManQ45 Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 I believe I can understand your reasoning, but I'm not sure it is right..... The 60 trim and 50 trim have the same overall diameter, with the only difference being the size of the inducer a little bit more than a 1/4 inch. I believe that the turbine will have a greater effect on boost onset and spool than the compressor trim. If you are adamant about the 50 trim (and I'm not saying you're wrong), I don't think that a Stage 5 turbine will gain you anything down lower and will definitely help up top. Just using the same Stage 3 turbine with a 50 trim compressor would give you better onset and spool than what you have now, but the Stage 5 turbine trim will go the other way.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 My current turbo that is up for sale right now was a t04E 60 trim. I didnt get full boost in 4th until 3800.. 1st only saw 15psi, 2nd saw full boost around 5K. I have a stage 3, 50 trim T03/04E that hits 22 psi by 3200 rpm in third. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wigenOut-S30 Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I believe I can understand your reasoning, but I'm not sure it is right..... The 60 trim and 50 trim have the same overall diameter, with the only difference being the size of the inducer a little bit more than a 1/4 inch. I believe that the turbine will have a greater effect on boost onset and spool than the compressor trim. If you are adamant about the 50 trim (and I'm not saying you're wrong), I don't think that a Stage 5 turbine will gain you anything down lower and will definitely help up top. Just using the same Stage 3 turbine with a 50 trim compressor would give you better onset and spool than what you have now, but the Stage 5 turbine trim will go the other way.... Brad have you seen the compressor maps between the .50 trim and .60 trim? The .60 trim doesnt fit my preference quite as good as the.50 trim . Wheel size of the isn't the whole story on turbo's making power. Also take in account how the wheel was designed and how it works with the housings.(look at the GT2871R, super small turbo that can make tons of power.. A buddy of mine had one in his SR S13 and made over 400WHP easily. I know for a fact.. my Z did not hit full boost until 3800RPMs in 4th. It was later in second and third.. It has a 60 trim compressor wheel and a stage 3 76 trim exhaust wheel. I see what your saying about the stage 5 being more laggy but when talking with people who have run them, they really didn't think it was significant enough to warrant the stage 3. maybe sacrifice 100rpms. See how on the .60 trim you are on the left side of the Surge line for the desired boost and not in the large effeciency island while maintaining that boost? now lets turn the boost up to 25psi. and see how the graph looks. with the .super.50 you are just going outside of the lbs per min on the very top end of your RPMS.. thats actually even some room to grow.. Now lets look at the .60 trim. Most of your time you will not be at all in the efficiency of this wheel.. Now if your talking about the 60-1 wheel now that is alittle different.. it does match with our cars rather well.. here is the map for the 60-1 wheel at 20psi. Now lets look at it at 25psi. even in the 60-1 wheel you notice your outside of the large island of efficiency at that boost level. Am I missing the boat on this? am I not reading these right or just totally off? heh I am really new at this and doing as much research as I can about turbo's.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-ManQ45 Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I can see the 50 trim as being a better match - especially at high boost. My main point was to get you thinking about the turbine section and where you want boost to start for your application - 3200 rpm in 3rd with a Stage III turbine - wonder what 1st and second are like? If you intend to autoX, then you may want the Stage III or maybe even smaller... All a matter of where your priorities are...if in fact you can live with the Stage V fine - it may even be better for autoX - where smooth counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 I had a T04B 60-1 compressor with a Stage 3 T3 turbine. I had lots of problems with surge after I installed an intercooler and turned up the boost. It worked fine at full throttle, full boost (good for the dragstrip), but it was miserable everywhere else. Definitely not good for a road course. HB28ZT is also running a similar turbo to mine with a 60-1 compressor and he too has problems with surge (http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=129000). I think that the 60-1 just runs too close to the surge line for our engines. I took my turbo to a local turbo builder (Herman at Cherry Turbo's in St. Thomas, Ontario - I highly recommend him for those near by), and he switched the 60-1 out for a 50 trim (but kept it in the B series housing so I wouldn't need to run a spacer). Night and day difference! I don't have any dyno figures to show if it's making more power, but improved drive-ability was my primary goal, and it feels like a whole new car now. No surge at all. The T04E 60 Trim looks like it will have the same problems as the T04B 60-1, and based on that, I'd personally stay away from it. Nigel '73 240ZT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 I'll just leave this here. It's a pretty cool spreadsheet that plots flow on maps like the squirrel performance ones. Turbo.Sizing.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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