bjhines Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 I have seen a few ideas using spherical bearings in the TC buckets... Ron Carter's BRE replica used something like this... where did he source those parts??? I have seen somewhere that AFCO makes a bushing replacement kit that uses spherical bearings in machined retainers... These are similar to what Design Products sells for the inner control arm mounting... http://www.designproductsracing.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=514 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 ok.. I recieved a PM from someone who knows about these... I have $$$ but I need more info... the sender has set his HybridZ account to not receive PM returns... so I would love some more info... as well as purchase info... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 wow... dark hole... I guess it is not so common to use a monoball on the TC bucket... I managed to spend WAYYYY too much time searching the HybridZ forums with NO LUCK... google every time baybeeee... http://www.stockcarproducts.com/susp3.htm http://www.ubmachine.com/lowers.html http://www.boyceindustries.com/boyce-mb-monoball-assemblies.html Most of these guys are using a 3/4" monoball rated at ~20,000lbs.. It was stated here by someone that the axial loading was ~15% of the radial loading that would work out to around ~3,000lbs load rating on a monoball used axially on the end of the TC rod... does that sound right to you guys... is that safe??? EDIT: I found a FAQ on the Aurora website that states the monoball Axila loads at 20% of radial capacity... http://www.aurorabearing.com/technical-resources/faqs/default.html That would mean that the mid grade bearing I am getting would take 4000 lbs to fail... the aerospace bearings would take 7200 lbs axial loads to fail... Now to get to work on finding a suitable bearing and modifying the housing... The stock TC rod is necked down to ~1/2" from ~5/8"... That is a good place to start... assuming I can properly align the hockey stick with the new increased caster setting I should be able to use the stock TC rods... I think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 How are you going to integrate that part into a TC rod? I'm using the first one my rear control arms by the way: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=106457 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 I'm sorry.. I forgot to post a pic... .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 I ordered a set of monoball bushing replacement assemblies from stock car products...part # MBA 12 The housings are slightly less than 2" long, 1 3/4" OD, with necked 1/2" ID spacers/bushings to adapt the 3/4" ball to 1/2" bolt size with 2 1/2" overall width... I will machine most of the housing away and weld it in the TC bucket... The necked bushings with a few washers will work for caster adjustment and allow me to secure the 1/2" TC rod in a realatively large(strong) monoball... I can raise the height of the TC point in the process... I will have to get the parts in hand to see what can really be done for TC height... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 I suppose that should work. I imagine you'll cut the monoball holder down a lot so that it is only ~1" thick, then you'll weld it to the TC bucket. The TC bucket is probably less than 1/8" thick. You might try to figure out a way to reinforce it so that the bucket itself is less flexible. As you pointed out the rod ends are a lot stronger when they are turned 90 degrees and the race is in line with the load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 That is Ron Carter's work there... I don't know how he drives it... but the assembly I chose houses the largest monoball I could find.. It is not the highest quality either.. I can go up to 36,000 lbs with the really high dollar aerospace pieces... If they fit... I think the ID/OD is fairly standardized... Good point on reinforcing the TC bucket... maybe a formed inside doubler and another outside gusset... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 Here are the bearing specs... http://aurora.thomasnet.com/item/browse-all-products-aircraft-spherical-bearing/m-series-spherical-bearings-ptfe-liners-available-/com-12?&seo=110 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom'sZ Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 bjhines: very cool project. Could you expand a little on how you intend to attach the housing to the T/C mount. I realize you are going to weld it to the T/C mount. On which side? (front, back, both?) How would the monoball be captured? Maybe I'm not getting this. Would you weld the housing to the front and then the nut on the back captures the monoball? Would the T/C mount be modified to accomidate this? (hole enlarged?) Also, the pictures you posted, the top one, what am I looking at? Is the uninstalled bearing laying on a white painted surface? Or is that a similar bearing installed in a different application. The bottom one I recognize as being a Zcar t/c mount, looks really nice, but how was this done? Sorry for dumb a$$ nub questions. Jon: are you saying you used this type of captured monoball assembly for the rear control arm outer bushings? If so did the control arm have to be modified (other then tack welding in the housing)? I followed that thread with you and terry? that you posted a link to above, and was very excited but then it sort of fell off the radar. I have purchased the DP products front inner ones and they are NICE!!! I haven't installed them yet because I want to purchase a spare set of front lower control arms to put them in. Anybody got a pair 4 sale? (77 280) One thing to note that wasn't really on DP's web site (at least not that I had seen) is that the front lower control arm sphericals are available for either 5/8" size bolts or stock size bolts. I got stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Jon: are you saying you used this type of captured monoball assembly for the rear control arm outer bushings? If so did the control arm have to be modified (other then tack welding in the housing)? I followed that thread with you and terry? that you posted a link to above, and was very excited but then it sort of fell off the radar. It fell off the radar because I needed to have some parts machined and to buy some more stuff to get it completed. I'm just about ready to jump back into it. The monoball holders will be used on the inner pivots, rod ends on the outer pivots. A 5/8" monoball (com10) with no holder at all, just the bearing itself, almost fits into the outside end of a stock control arm. I can't remember how far off they are, but it's like .010 too big or right around there. The exact info is in that thread I linked to before. The 3/4" monoball (com12) that is used in this piece that bjhines ordered is way too big to put into the rear control arm on the outboard end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 The whole idea here is to get a solid, flex free mounting for the TC rod... and to keep the pivot point as far back as possible(dead even with the back plane of the TC bucket)... and I can use the stock TC rod.. I will have to slot the TC mounting holes on the control arm for added caster angle... Those parts are used in racing to get rid of the rubber suspension bushings... they are made to fit all kinds of cars... they pop into the same holes as the original bushings but they are rock solid and move with very little friction/sticktion... The particular ones I am using are just like the large outer sleeve of a control arm bushing... 1 3/4" OD... they are ~2" long... they have a step machined inside to hold the monoball... the other side has a circlip to hold it in place... The ones in the pictures have been machined down to leave just the middle of the outer monoball housing... then the housing is welded into the TC bucket.. after cutting a 1 3/4" hole first... I will be orienting them soo that the circlip does not take the loads... ie. circlip on the front side... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom'sZ Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 OHhhhhh.... OK... I understand, thanks for explaining Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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